Suggestions for Companies Selling Kits

[pinkmouse]

Moved the thread because it's becoming more general than just chip amps.

[wintermute]

Originally posted by hongrn


Hello Tony,

I think mudslinging and name calling belong to people who can't debate. I have offered my points and counterpoints, spoken in general and not focused on any particular vendor. I have written about my experience, and gathered a few things I picked up by reading the forum. I didn't self appoint to represent anything. I'm just posting an opinion. Years of running very successful businesses have given me a good outlook on how to succeed: good customer service. Whether you run a part time or full time enterprise, your customers make or break you. Period. That's my point of view. Please feel free to disagree. And I agree with you, we've all said enough on the topic, time to give it a rest. Without discourse, there's no problem solving. Five years from now, I bet you we'll see the same old problems posted if things don't change.

Best Regards,

Hong

Hi Hong,

debate is good makes people think about things they otherwise wouldn't. time will tell if it has been productive

cheers

Tony.

[javven]

Amp makers, esp should build their project at least every 2-3 months with parts they DO NOT have on hand. That way, they can keep a running list of current part makers. This will help them, their customer AND businesses who's success compliments their own.

FULL KITS should be available for the first timer. I mean chassis, toriod, caps and heat sinks. If you want to cut something out? Cut out the easy-to-get stuff, resistors, run-o-the-mill caps, etc. It doesn't do a builder any good if he can't figure out a chassis, heatsink etc, but has the board plugged.

[quickshift]

I think what would be useful is letting newbie's know what they need to know and where to find the information.

It's all out there on the internet so maybe people could post links here to websites containing the information?

For examples and background information.

http://xtronics.com/kits/rcode.htm - good site for basic info on components BTW

http://www.bcdxc.org/resistor_color_codes.htm

http://www.trinitysoundcompany.com/grounding.html

http://ampage.org/htac/chassis.html

Suppliers of wire, enclosures and stuff.

www.farnell.com , www.maplin.co.uk, www.hificollective.co.uk , http://www.airlinktransformers.com/toroids.htm ,

Etc etc etc etc.

[Nuuk]

FULL KITS should be available for the first timer. I mean chassis, toriod, caps and heat sinks. If you want to cut something out? Cut out the easy-to-get stuff, resistors, run-o-the-mill caps, etc. It doesn't do a builder any good if he can't figure out a chassis, heatsink etc, but has the board plugged.

1 That would make the kit more expensive than the same thing bought ready-built. The cost of shipping items like cases and transformers would be ridiculous, especially for international buyers. Supplying kits in the sort of numbers that they would sell the kits, would mean that the cost of the case would be astonomical!

2 People build their own hi-fi because they want something different and/or individual. I agree that the case/chassis is the stumbling block for many builders. But there are cases available and isn't it peferable to be able to choose the style of case, rather than have to go with one that is included in the kit?

I think what would be useful is letting newbie's know what they need to know and where to find the information.

It is there already! All you need to do is search! The Internet is wonderful but one negative aspect is that it has brought about, for some people, the idea that the information should be available without any effort on their part! You wouldn't believe the number of questions I get to DD that are already answered on the site! Sure, life would be much easier if somebody held our hands and spoon fed us. But what would that achieve?

[quickshift]

Originally posted by Nuuk



It is there already! All you need to do is search! The Internet is wonderful but one negative aspect is that it has brought about, for some people, the idea that the information should be available without any effort on their part! You wouldn't believe the number of questions I get to DD that are already answered on the site! Sure, life would be much easier if somebody held our hands and spoon fed us. But what would that achieve?

I know it's already there, I have looked and found what I need to know for the most part. I'm not sure it's a case of everyone who asks questions not wanting search. I think part of the issue may be that people don't know what to search for, hence the suggestion for pointers or a library of links to basic information.

Some people need spoon feeding to start off with, some people have natural aptitude and can work out for themselves what they need to research.

I think what it would achieve is a bit of a helpful shove up the learning curve for those people who really do need walking through the early stages of preparing to build a kit.

I understand where you are coming from as it goes, I used to do IT support and training amongst other things and have got frustrated with being asked the same questions by the same people time and time again on occasion.

I'm not guilty of asking you a question because they are answered on your site but I could understand how a less technically minded person, particularly someone who is afraid to experiment, may need to check what they are doing.

I don't think it's a giant leap in terms of using ones own initiative to pop “read resistor code” into Yahoo but some people obviously do or nobody would have any problems identifying resistors.

Cheers for creating DD BTW, it has been a very useful reference site

[rabbitz]

Originally posted by quickshift

Some people need spoon feeding to start off with, some people have natural aptitude and can work out for themselves what they need to research.

That's the reason for starting with small non mains kits first.... training wheels. I'm sorry, but if a person doesn't have any natural aptitude, then they shouldn't be doing amps or any other mains stuff as they can be killed by lethal voltages. You have to have fair skills when you start diagnosing any problems and probing inside a case without knowing what the bitey bits are is asking for trouble.

I'd just like to see the new builder take a sensible approach by using a crawl... walk.... run thing. It's surprising how quick you learn when you take that approach, then there is no need to be spoon fed. Those that are spoon fed, learn nothing and continually look for the spoon.

[Variac]

One problem that has fooled the mods also, is that anyone can easily set up a website to facilitate orders. These generally look quite good, and thus appear to be a substantial commercial enterprise, when they are in fact just set up to facilitate a group buy.

[javven]

I disagree with the expense issue. No one says the chassis has to be substantial.

1 bit of plywood.
2 bits wooden sides
1 bit semi-fancy wood front panel
1 bit inexpensive (phenolic resin?) back panel
1 bit expanded steel grate
3-5 bits reinforcement 2cmx2cm square stock

All you'd need is some glue and a few fasteners. Painted and attractively finished it could be quite a pretty piece. I bet with some work you could offer this at about, oh an additional $40 US?

The toriod, etc plus caps WOULD certainly put you in 'cheap' power amp territory if you included it all. Yes, one must also make a profit. The nice thing is you don't have to finish or even buy it all at once, helping the poor-guy DIY-er like me.

If you aren't going to bundle stuff, at least provide some plans based on local-hardware-store material dimensions. Require no sawing operations be performed by the end user. Make it easier for the apartmet / dorm-room living folks to make the product.

[Nuuk]

I bet with some work you could offer this at about, oh an additional $40 US?

40$! I doubt that, even if you used labour from China! And what about knobs, sockets, mains connector, grommets, fasteners, finish?

You are talking in quantities of hundreds at the most. That would make it either impractical to ship from somewhere like China, or uneconomical to set up machinery to make it in Europe or the US.

And if the case doesn't look 100% (and keep in mind that taste is a personal thing), you may even put off buyers so you would have to make it an option, reducig the numbers still further.

BUT don't despair all you apartment dwellers! There could be some good news coming soon (via a well-known DIY hi-fi site)!