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Old 20th September 2005, 11:55 AM   #11
SY is offline SY  United States
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Emotional content is the responsibility of the musicians, not the amplifier. I hate emotional amplifiers; they're tempermental and tend to cry a lot.

BTW, we just did a double blind test of Mosel Rieslings. Despite test pressure and all those other horrible things, the panel had no problem distinguishing Wehlener Sonnenuhr from Uertziger Wuertzgarten.
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Old 20th September 2005, 12:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by pjpoes
[snip]I have one more analogy that may help you understand why DBT can not work to detect these differences. If I setup a study to show you different color cards, and have you recall if two are the same or different, and I placed them side by side, you probably could detect very slight shade differences. However, If I show you one, then take it away, and show you the other, you probably could not detect the difference. This is because our sense memory is not very strong, and so we can not hold the one color in our brains long enough to compare it with the other. The analogue to sound would be playing two different components for you, and asking you to tell the slight differences between the two. If you had both available at the exact same time, you probably could, accept that our ears can't deal with that well, and its very difficult to do. So instead, I have to show you only one sound, take it away, and show you the next, and ask you to detect the difference. The problem here again is that our memory is simply not strong enough to extrapolate all the sudtle differences that exist. Instead, I would have to let you live with the two colors, or sounds for a long period of time, and then you would begin to notice all the differences. Again, please understand that is something I can defend with a great deal of studies, that is how our senses work, and that is always taken into account when attempting to measure the response from our senses.
But I fully agree to this. Most DBT's are set up such that the listener can switch and listen as long or short or repeated as he likes. Within practical limits of course, but nobody ever said DBTs are perfect; but they beat anything else that has been proposed.

But wouldn't you agree that if the differences in color shades are so small and subtle, you could select ANY as your curtains and be happy with them? Same with sound equipment; if the differences are so small that they cannot reliably be identified, then any of them will do. Again, the problem is that whoever bought those 500$/ft cables CANNOT ACCEPT that there is no audible difference.

Jan Didden
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Old 20th September 2005, 12:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by janneman


Again, the problem is that whoever bought those 500$/ft cables CANNOT ACCEPT that there is no audible difference.

Jan Didden
It's also a trap that DIYr's get into -- in which the perceived sonic improvement is directly related to the time investment.

pip -- don't they give the Doctoral students at Cornell a copy of "Strunk and White"
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Old 20th September 2005, 12:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY
Emotional content is the responsibility of the musicians, not the amplifier. I hate emotional amplifiers; they're tempermental and tend to cry a lot.
that's because their transistors have "emoters" instead of "emitters"
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Old 20th September 2005, 01:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY
[snip]BTW, we just did a double blind test of Mosel Rieslings. Despite test pressure and all those other horrible things, the panel had no problem distinguishing Wehlener Sonnenuhr from Uertziger Wuertzgarten.

Stuart,

Don't get me started! You mean there was a clear difference in headaches??

Jan Didden
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Old 20th September 2005, 02:14 PM   #16
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Jan:

I am building a set of DALINES into a pair of Margaux boxes. Unfortunately the Marguax has to rest for about 15 years.
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Old 20th September 2005, 06:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: Double Blind Testing

Again?

Oh SY, SYyyyyy...
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Old 20th September 2005, 07:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by jackinnj
Jan:

I am building a set of DALINES into a pair of Margaux boxes. Unfortunately the Marguax has to rest for about 15 years.

Don't forget to break in your drivers in oak barrels first. Five years would be OK I guess.

Jan Didden
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Old 20th September 2005, 07:27 PM   #19
SY is offline SY  United States
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Anyone using oak on Riesling should be shot.

Carlos, you may not like that blind tests work in sensory matters, but they do. I understand that since I'm in the business of undermining Portugal's number one industry that anything I say may be suspect to you...
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Old 20th September 2005, 07:36 PM   #20
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Originally posted by SY
Carlos...
SY!
I was joking, really...
But you obviously didn't understand it.
I don't know what are you talking about, sorry... we are not tuned to the same station.
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