litz inductor wire for speaker wire. - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > General Interest > Everything Else

Everything Else Anything related to audio / video / electronics etc) BUT remember- we have many new forums where your thread may now fit! .... Parts, Equipment & Tools, Construction Tips, Software Tools......

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th June 2005, 12:51 AM   #1
fazman is offline fazman  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor Ontario
Default litz inductor wire for speaker wire.

2 things: First I apologize if this has been discussed in a previous thread, could not find it on a search.
Second, this question is directed to the people who believe that different wire makes a difference to the sound ( I know it does), my own ears don't lie to me when doing comparisons.

On to my questions:

I currently have laying around different values of 14 gauge litz varnished inductor wire from Solen that were intended for old speaker projects that never made it to the inside of a cabinet.

It has been said (advertised) that there are many advantages to this type of wire in an inductor, skin effect etc...

Aside from the insulation factor (a lack of), is there any reason that this wire wouldn't make an excellent speaker wire? (Once unravelled from it's coil form of course).

Interested in all of your thoughts on this.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2005, 05:01 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Sch3mat1c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Send a message via ICQ to Sch3mat1c Send a message via AIM to Sch3mat1c
Default Re: litz inductor wire for speaker wire.

Quote:
Originally posted by fazman
Aside from the insulation factor (a lack of), is there any reason that this wire wouldn't make an excellent speaker wire?
No, not really. Well, expense, but that hasn't stopped anyone... at least, anyone out to make a buck.

Relatively? Say compared to stranded 18AWG twin-lead with PVC insulation (aka "zip cord")? Nope, no difference.
It's a fraggin' speaker.
A 100W 40-meter transmitter wouldn't notice the difference.

Tim
__________________
Seven Transistor Labs
Projects and Resources
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2005, 11:31 AM   #3
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
diyAudio Member
 
soongsc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Taiwan
Default Re: litz inductor wire for speaker wire.

Quote:
Originally posted by fazman
On to my questions:


It has been said (advertised) that there are many advantages to this type of wire in an inductor, skin effect etc...

Aside from the insulation factor (a lack of), is there any reason that this wire wouldn't make an excellent speaker wire? (Once unravelled from it's coil form of course).

Interested in all of your thoughts on this.

I asked someone that does speaker mods once, he indicated litz wires mixes the imaging up. Technically I think its possible because energy differences in each of the individual strands do not get redistributed until the cable end where they com together again. But I would also like to find out.

Let us know what you think if you do make them speaker cables.
__________________
Hear the real thing!
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2005, 12:04 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
audiobomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sudbury, Ontario Canada
Default Re: litz inductor wire for speaker wire.

Quote:
Originally posted by fazman
Aside from the insulation factor (a lack of), is there any reason that this wire wouldn't make an excellent speaker wire? (Once unravelled from it's coil form of course).
I've been wondering the same thing ever since I heard of people using copper foil from an inductor as speaker cabling. See http://www.audiosold.com/articles/specables.htm.

I wouldn't try this with foil, because it's uninsulated therefore subject to shorting. It would also be highly sensitive to RFI (it's virtually an antenna.) But the Solen Hepta-Litz wires are electrically insulated and the Litz construction should provide good RFI shielding.

I have a 12ga Solen Hepta-Litz (7x22ga) that I will try one day as speaker wire. I preferred the sound of the Hepta-Litz inductor compared to a 12ga Goertz Alpha-Core when I was playing around with crossover mods.
__________________
Dan
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2005, 05:03 PM   #5
fazman is offline fazman  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor Ontario
Default Re: Re: litz inductor wire for speaker wire.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sch3mat1c


No, not really. Well, expense, but that hasn't stopped anyone... at least, anyone out to make a buck.

Relatively? Say compared to stranded 18AWG twin-lead with PVC insulation (aka "zip cord")? Nope, no difference.
It's a fraggin' speaker.
A 100W 40-meter transmitter wouldn't notice the difference.

Tim
So much for posting who I had intended to respond to this thread.
Your point is duely noted thank you.

As for the other responses: I think I may very well try it out. As for the RFI factor, would that not be related to how the positive and negative leads interact with each other and not so much what the one lead does on it's own (twist or otherwise)? As far as I know the litz configuration does help in reducing the skin effect but I'm not certain about it's effect on RFI.

This is the part that I'm not sure of - how to get the pos. and neg. leads to act with one another. Is it a good idea to twist them or braid them together even though it is only a varnish that is protecting the bare copper. The thought of looping 20 ft. of wire through a sleeve of some sort doesn't impress me much, I have better things to do than that.

Anyone with some suggestions on what you could do here?
Also, would doubling up the runs for a 20 ft length help?
I probably have enough to do it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2005, 05:32 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
jneutron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: away
Default Re: Re: Re: litz inductor wire for speaker wire.

Quote:
Originally posted by fazman


So much for posting who I had intended to respond to this thread.
Perhaps you should ask the target individual to respond in the subject line or text, rather than hope they do.

Quote:
Originally posted by fazman
As for the RFI factor, would that not be related to how the positive and negative leads interact with each other and not so much what the one lead does on it's own (twist or otherwise)? As far as I know the litz configuration does help in reducing the skin effect but I'm not certain about it's effect on RFI.

This is the part that I'm not sure of - how to get the pos. and neg. leads to act with one another. Is it a good idea to twist them or braid them together even though it is only a varnish that is protecting the bare copper. The thought of looping 20 ft. of wire through a sleeve of some sort doesn't impress me much, I have better things to do than that.
I know of two main reasons for using litz. The first is flexibility.

The second is the reduction of skin effect based resistive losses which occur at rather high frequencies.

At audio frequencies, the litz will still have it's internal inductance of 15 nH per foot. To use a litz pair for a speaker, the overall inductance will still follow the terman equation...with the exception of the delta times mu part. For a typical zip, the internal inductance is about 18% of the total L, total L being about .2 uH per foot. Litz wire does not re-distribute the current as a function of frequency until much higher frequencies, so I believe the 15 nH per foot drop will be suppressed until the higher frequencies..

The bulk of the inductance will be exactly like a pair of #14 wires. The better resistance vs freq of the litz might do something for low impedance mids and tweets.

The varnish as an insulator is scary. Not very abrasion resistant.

Litz, by design, is made to allow the current to distribute very uniformly within the wire, so re-distribution of energy is not an issue.

RFI sensitivity is entirely based on the wire to wire spacing and twist..closer is better, as is a reasonable twist. In this respect, it is no different from regular #14.

Cheers, John
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2005, 12:29 AM   #7
fazman is offline fazman  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor Ontario
Default Re: Re: Re: Re: litz inductor wire for speaker wire.

Quote:
Originally posted by jneutron




RFI sensitivity is entirely based on the wire to wire spacing and twist..closer is better, as is a reasonable twist. In this respect, it is no different from regular #14.

Cheers, John

Thanks John.
Do you think there would be a problem in twisting the pos and neg conductors together when there is only a varnish to protect them?
Would I have to pay attention to the direction of the litz from one conductor to another?
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2005, 02:04 AM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Sch3mat1c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Send a message via ICQ to Sch3mat1c Send a message via AIM to Sch3mat1c
No thread is safe from my reign of terror....ibly realistic logic.

Tim
__________________
Seven Transistor Labs
Projects and Resources
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2005, 06:24 PM   #9
fazman is offline fazman  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor Ontario
Well, I just finished one length of the 14 gauge litz wire in a twisted configuration and compared it to the 12 gauge stranded Home depot wire I was using.
I don't know technically what is happening but what a difference in the type of sound I'm hearing.
At first I thought the highs were a bit rolled off but after more listening I realized that all the highs were there just not screaming like the stranded wire.
I also noticed that these new litz wires are not as loud as the other one as there is a very slight drop in output.

Wonder if this drop in output and sweeter highs has something to do with inductance?

Definitely worth trying out to see if it works in your own system.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2005, 02:51 AM   #10
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
diyAudio Member
 
soongsc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Taiwan
What are the differences in resistance using a multimeter?
__________________
Hear the real thing!
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
22 AWG silver plated solid copper wire for speaker wire? G Full Range 21 15th February 2009 09:32 PM
Litz wire and copper foil Eva Class D 14 2nd July 2006 07:49 AM
LITZ wire gearheaddruid Swap Meet 0 11th January 2005 05:07 AM
Litz Wire - Where to buy? ClassD Parts 0 5th April 2004 06:37 AM
using 14 gauge inductor unrolled for speaker wire under carpet?? Ken L Multi-Way 21 14th March 2004 03:47 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:12 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2