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Old 8th May 2005, 04:07 PM   #1
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Unhappy What we can never acheive

Just came from Chapters in Toronto downtown. AN older very well appointed woman and her daughter were just sort of loafing around a Yamaha Baby grand they have there.

As i went to get a magazine they must have decided to sit and play. I heard a mediocre piano player who was more then lifted up musically by the younger girls incredible voice. She sang an old Billy Holiday song and was beyond quite good. I may be new to you all but i have been in some of the best clubs and heard the best singers around and this lady was a Chritina Aguilara class vocalist. ( excellent singer bad song selector )

My point was, as i came back and just stood and listened, i realized that no matter what i build, no matter how much money i spend. I can NEVER duplicate the sound that i heard today. Same goes for anything else i have been in and heard. I have said a few times in my posts that i wanted big sound. This is what i am talking about. Standing in a huge room, 10 feet from a piano with a vocalist weaving lyrical magic. Not the SPL but the reality.

I can already hear a few saying "BUT" there are no buts dudes. I can go back there right now and put the WORLDS absolute best Fullrange speaker and enclosure there with the worlds purest and cleanest signal source and amplifier, close my eye's and ............ it would still sound like a reproduction.

Gotta go ..... i depress myself now.

Michael

Worker Bee sound grunt for various live artists in the 90's
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Old 8th May 2005, 04:45 PM   #2
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Michael, I agree 100%
Of course this is fuel for the "Live Music" debate. But I'd go further and say that amplified acoustical instruments "grate" to my ears. There is nothing better than the sound of instruments making music, without technological interference.

Much the same applies to Theatre v Cinema. Although of course the art forms have diverged, I'd trade 20 cinema seats for 1 live performance.

What we see and hear at home is a facsimile, and we must not forget that. But it shouldn't stop us from striving to make that facsimile as accurate as possible.
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Old 8th May 2005, 06:17 PM   #3
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In my experience, binaural recordings can be impossible to distinguish from reality. I see no reason why it could not eventually be possible to achieve the same level of fidelity through speakers. It may take some radical advances in technology, but who knows what may happen in the future.
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Old 8th May 2005, 06:41 PM   #4
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I think that no matter what means you are using to attempt reality in a reproduction, you will not ever come close due to the nature of the attempt.

You can't take room ambience and toss it through a speaker. If you could...

Bose would be a good speaker.

I'm with dhaen and Mike. There's nothing, I repeat nothing that sounds like real.

This is coming from a guy who has played around with speakers for the last 30 years. I came to grips with it a long time ago.

Cal
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Old 8th May 2005, 06:55 PM   #5
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I am just praying to any audio god i can think of that DI pole arrays or OB speakers come close. Since thats where alot of my energy is going right now. I think my TL hybrid 3 way is going to tank. i am still building it anyway though
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Old 8th May 2005, 07:08 PM   #6
Mr Evil is offline Mr Evil  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cal Weldon
I think that no matter what means you are using to attempt reality in a reproduction, you will not ever come close due to the nature of the attempt.

You can't take room ambience and toss it through a speaker. If you could...
I see no fundamental reason why it couldn't be done. The system would need to know the listener's position and orientation and the room's acoustics. The sound emanating from the speakers could be processed with that in mind to achieve any result at the listeners ears. Not practical now, to be sure, but one day...
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Old 8th May 2005, 07:18 PM   #7
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I didnt make myself clear back there. Forget processing and DSP .... just take the worlds BEST speaker, full range or whatever . Put it in the worlds best designed enclosure or OB if you like and stand it exactly where she was standing and you still would know it was NOT her.

Thats my point. Forget about various rooms because thats gonna take it even further from what the original sounded like.

Its just maddening to hear something that beautiful and know that you cant take it home.


ANd all you sick puppys thinking i am a nut bar who collects singing girls ............... bahhhh

Michael
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Old 8th May 2005, 11:48 PM   #8
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Ain't it the truth. I did a favor for someone that I never met (I recorded a couple of rare records onto CD). It turned out that he was part of the 60's guitar mafia (Fahey, Basho, Ackerman) and he returned the favor by giving me a private 12 string concert in my hotel room. 200 grand won't give you that sound. The other side of the coin, I went to hear Leo Kottke for the first time since 1977 he was about 80/20 amplified/direct and it seriously detracted from the whole experience for me.
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Old 9th May 2005, 03:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
I didnt make myself clear back there. Forget processing and DSP .... just take the worlds BEST speaker, full range or whatever . Put it in the worlds best designed enclosure or OB if you like and stand it exactly where she was standing and you still would know it was NOT her.
Well of course not. The recording process isnt perfect. The playback isnt perfect. The amplification can be pretty close, but the speakers will plain murder it!

I am a bit more optimistic than some.... I believe with the right technology. Everything can be done right starting with the recording and ending with the speakers. At that point the difference may be noticeable, but a blind test would probably make it impossible to tell.
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Old 9th May 2005, 03:39 AM   #10
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My $0.02.

I can't argue the original premise of the thread. Home audio falls flat when you try to recreate the magic of a small venue live performance, I'll give you that.

BUT, IMHO, I honestly have and will enjoy *some* recordings of rock concerts more than the actual performance. Sure, this is by no means an A/B comparison because the rock concert is more about the show than purely the music. However, the sound quality in these venues is often atrocious and a live recording on a high end system just sounds better to me. My point is that I'm pretty satisfied the way things are!
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