Audio-Sector discussion splitoff

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Peter Daniel said:
I guess the fuse (and transformer) are the only two aspects of this design that Peranders is competent enough to discuss.;)

:cop: Mod hat on. Please be aware that it is inappropriate to insult a ( also competent ) member like that. I did not miss the smiley :cop:

There is nothing wrong with what P-A said about creeping distance and I am sure a company can not get away with soldered (standard ) fuses in Europe when regulations are concerned. As P-A stated he only wanted to give hints instead of starting a fight so please try to accept some comments, it will possibly only benefit you.
 
jean-paul said:


:cop: Mod hat on. Please be aware that it is inappropriate to insult a ( also competent ) member like that. I did not miss the smiley :cop:

There is nothing wrong with what P-A said about creeping distance and I am sure a company can not get away with soldered (standard ) fuses in Europe when regulations are concerned. As P-A stated he only wanted to give hints instead of starting a fight so please try to accept some comments, it will possibly only benefit you.

Peranders also said that this board is not suitable for metal enclosure:

peranders said:
The main issue was that your pcb wasn't so good for a metal case.

As well that I'm not good enough to understand safety rules:

peranders said:

Peter, if you act like a pro I think it's your duty to do what you can when it comes to electrical safety and regulations. If you aren't so good in this, just ask because some things are pretty easy like creepage distance and usage of approved parts.

To me this is as big an insult, especially when he comments, without understanding, on a commercial product, throwing a shadow of incompetence on me, in a matter that he did not explain himself completely. This is something that moderators should actualy look into.

Safety rules are a big thing on this forum, but clearly, my design did not violate any of them yet.
 
To whom it may concern.

When a manufacturer of electrical equipment sells his equipment the equipment needs to pass certain EMC and safety test. Any manufacturer MUST make sure that his equipment can pass all required tests. If for some reason the apparatus does not comply with the rules set by the local government the MANUFACTURER is forced by LAW to ensure that ANY equipment is reworked so that it can pass the test.

If the equipment causes a fire the manufacturer can and WILL be held responsible.
If personal injury occurs, the MANUFACTURER WILL be held responsible

If the manufacturer fails to meet the demands of the test, the manufacturer can be fined or even send to jail.

These rules are not to be taken lightly – they are here to protect us all against badly engineered and manufactured equipment.

I personally think that all the pros here (myself included) should do our best to help the DIY people – but to not give free EMC and safety advise to manufactures who should learn the general rules before selling equipment.

\Jens
 
Jason,

Why would it FAIL? If you do such claims, I request clear and specific explanation. This is not a regular thread and my reputation is on line. That's why we should adhere to more strict rules with regards to expressing claims here. And yours are not substantiated by anything, you are just randomly repeating the same all over, without giving any explanation why.
 
Peter Daniel said:
My product is so flexible, that it's up to you how you will use it. The AC section (either transformer, or AC receptacle) can be easily trimmed off, if it does not suit your needs. You can also put two fuses (on hot and on neutral, if you wish). I'm offering compact integrated solution, which btw complies with safety regulations, but it's completely up to end user how he will implement the board and use its features.

There is no set rules as how it supposed to be done, there is only a set of options. But most of you, participating in this discussion, missed to understand that.

Actually some of the safety regulations are rather specific. But generally the manufacturer is supposed to engineer his own solution to the rules.

The rules are WERY SPECIFIC when it comes to over voltage and insulation between mains side voltages and secondary side voltages in a power supply.

I think you have misunderstood the rules. The safety people at the test facility care more about safety, than what your implementation of a dac sounds like. If the thing does not pass the test, it does not matter how good it may sound. They will stop the product hitting the streets. This is a fact of life, that may also explain why some things are done “sub optimal” compared to signal path and so on in many commercial products.

Enough of this, good luck in court Peter ;) (<- This is a joke)

\Jens
 
Im not trying to hurt nor am i trying to ruen or dis your reputation. All * I * am saying is you should change yuor ways of therory for ac law's and im plement better ideas for safty. Making is compact is great but also keep note that you you have to be ware of some one eles's safty building yuor product. We all know you will sell this as a kit or as a finnished product im just looking out for you so you will be around longer. Me i do admire your work but some times i disagree with some aspect's of the law's and implementation.

Keep up the good work just think of other's safty as well.
 
Peter Daniel said:
Here's another solution. Nobody says that place on my board, specified for AC connection has to be used. I made it there, as it works for me and offers compact, one piece assembly, without need for a chassis ar any wires.

But this Power Module, that I've been using on all my amps and PS, can be easily implemented with a DAC board, by simply connecting it with wires to transformer pins (on the bottom).


exactly : O) Perfect Product to be used with you'r dac.

Ive emailed you and asked nicly about the dac board but i guess you refuse. ANd when i said CSA aproved i ment your FINAL product had to be aproved not the board.

Can i Get a board please ?
 
JensRasmussen said:


Actually some of the safety regulations are rather specific. But generally the manufacturer is supposed the engineer his own solution to the rules.

The rules are WERY SPECIFIC when it comes to over voltage and insulation between mains side voltages and secondary side voltages in a power supply.

I think you have misunderstood the rules. The safety people at the test facility care more about safety, than what your implementation of a dac sounds like. If the thing does not pass the test, it does not matter how good it may sound. They will stop the product hitting the streets. This is a fact of life, that may also explain why some things are done “sub optimal” compared to signal path and so on in many commercial products.

Enough of this, good luck in court Peter ;) (<- This is a joke)

\Jens

Would you please explain what exact safety issues you have in mind when talking about "insulation between mains side voltages and secondary side voltages in a power supply."


Otherwise this discussion, and comments "good luck in court" are pointless.
 
Ex-Moderator
Joined 2002
:cop:

Guys, you have been warned. Peter has been made aware that some of you have concerns with safety. Fair enough. What he does now is up to him as a responsible manufacturer. But this discussion has gone far enough and stops NOW! Further action may be taken as required and without further warning.
 
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