Go Back   Home > Forums > General Interest > Everything Else
Home Forums Rules Articles Store Gallery Blogs Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Everything Else Anything related to audio / video / electronics etc) BUT remember- we have many new forums where your thread may now fit! .... Parts, Equipment & Tools, Construction Tips, Software Tools......

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th March 2005, 12:37 AM   #31
RHosch is offline RHosch  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SouthEast
Oh for heaven's sake, if this is a homework assignment don't go turning in the ramblings of KBK. You do want to stay in the course long enough to finish it, don't you?

The explanation is simple, and has been pointed out here twice. I would suggest redoing the experiment with a single wideband driver or single channel of headphones, and also doing trials at different sound pressure levels. A flat FR transducer is important if you want results reproducible by others, but not if the assignment is only a "neat... look at this" sort of experiment.

Fletcher Munson curves are generalized curves. Specific individuals will have somewhat different curves. Also, by definition the curves show how the human ear (generalized, again) varies in frequency response as a function of SPL. What you will find is that different listeners hear the transition at slightly different frequencies, and also that varying the SPL will result in a given listener hearing the transition at slightly different frequencies.

I suggest the single wideband driver because the presence of crossovers smearing a square wave might have some effect on the perceived transition frequency, and that would be interesting to note because the total energy in each harmonic would not be changed by the crossover. How the phase relationship between harmonic components of the signal affect the transition would be very interesting, and demonstrate an understanding of the phenomenon that your professor probably wouldn't expect. And while wideband drivers do have a limited frequency response, you have already established that the transition effect is high enough in frequency to be within the operating range of good widebands. If you really wanted to do a nice study (not sure how important the assignment is), insert a variable all-pass circuit in line that has an Fc near the transition frequency and try to isolate the role of harmonic phase relationships, or document the absence thereof.

Finally, follow up by examining published F-M curves (and the more recent ones... don't recall the name) and compare the perceived loudness of the fundamental and the second harmonic at the SPL corresponding to the proportion of the signal each contrubutes to a square wave at the SPL you used to test. See if those perceived loudness curves for the two frequency components happen to cross at the transition frequency you observed (in a given trial)....
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2005, 08:13 AM   #32
diyAudio Member
 
Carondimonio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bern
Quote:
Originally posted by dnsey
It therefore seems likely that the first harmonic of the sq wave is more easily perceived than the fundemental frequency.

Quote:
Originally posted by jeff mai


The above is the answer, but no one seems to have understood. There is no need to refer to diodes or transient perception to explain this.

The graph is only showing that the ear is increasingly less sensitive to frequencies below 200Hz. A square wave is a sine wave plus a series of harmonics (a perfect square wave would have an inifinite series.) Below 200Hz the ear perceives the first harmonic present in the square wave as being louder than the fundamental of the square wave. Therefore, where the fundamental of the sine wave of frequency "f" is below 200Hz, the required square wave frequency that is an audible match will be "f/2". Plain and simple.

Hi all,

it makes a lot of sense, besides one very small detail:

A perfect square wave has only ODD harmonics.
In other words, if you have a, say, 50Hz square wave, its sinus components are at 50, 150, 250 Hz and so on...
So, where does this "second harmonic", or "double freq. component" come from? Ear' s intermodulation distortion?

Cheers,

Bruno
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2005, 08:55 AM   #33
diyAudio Member
 
baggystevo82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Herefordshire
Send a message via MSN to baggystevo82
No, I was thinking the ability to hear the pressure waves of both flanks 'more seperately' at low frequencies. By the way it was mostly a 'neat look at this' question, I was just curious as to exactly why. I've got some more coursework to do now, but when I've got time I will try all these ideas out.
Cheers,
Steve
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2005, 05:18 AM   #34
diyAudio Member
 
jeff mai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne
Quote:
Originally posted by Carondimonio
A perfect square wave has only ODD harmonics.
Of course this is correct. Don't I feel silly! Oops!

Now what?
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Making Square Waves? Tom Danley Multi-Way 30 2nd August 2010 03:43 AM
tuning forks for pure sine waves? cuibono Everything Else 13 17th September 2008 05:39 PM
sine waves on nos dac regal Digital Source 5 11th March 2007 10:38 PM
Basement Blaster doing square waves thoriated Multi-Way 2 6th August 2004 05:48 AM
Sine and square wave function generator Bricolo Parts 14 8th March 2003 12:45 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:30 AM.

Page generated in 0.09660 seconds (74.76% PHP - 25.24% MySQL) with 11 queries

Copyright ©1999-2012 diyAudio