For those of you fortunate enough to not have had a classical education, ‘valete’ is the Latin for goodbye when addressing more than one person. Had I been speaking to an individual, the correct term would have been ‘vale’. The forum does not have a separate section for farewells, only introductions, so this is being posted under ‘Everything Else’. If I were a new member posting in the ‘Introductions’ section, I would have used ‘salvete’ (the Latin for hello) since there would be more than one person likely to read the message, whereas if I were sending an email to only a single recipient it would need to begin with ‘salve’.
What has this got to do with DIY audio? About as much as the majority of posts being made these days. So far as content is concerned, diyAudio has now become analogous to the Audio Asylum, something that certainly couldn't have been said 12 months ago.
Grey, myself and others in the past have tried to prevent the progressive decline in standards at the forum but without success. Eric has recently picked up the baton with his thread on ‘diyAudio netiquette’ but, as seems to be the norm these days, the thread has degenerated into the usual mix of useful comments lost in a morass of unrelated or irrelevant opinion. Grey has voiced our mutual concerns most eloquently in the aforementioned thread so I won’t repeat them here, but there is one thing I would like to add.
It seems to be expected by the newer and/or less experienced members of the forum that there will always be an ‘elder’ available and willing to help them with a question, no matter how trivial it may be. However, the question has to be asked as to why these ‘elders’ become and remain members. Is it solely an altruistic desire to pass on their hard-earned knowledge and experience to novices, some of whom appear to have little desire to research anything for themselves? This may be true in a few instances, but I suggest that the majority wish to receive something back from the forum in exchange for the hours spent typing replies to basic questions.
This ‘something’ is the ability to discuss and exchange views on the more esoteric or advanced aspects of audio engineering, whether it be amplifier design, speaker construction or whatever, in an environment that is conducive to this type of debate. However, judging by the comments in the ‘netiquette’ thread, this desire appears to be considered ‘elitist’ by those members who do not understand, or are not interested in, the topics under discussion.
As someone said in Eric’s thread, “you get out what you put in” – or at least you should do. Currently, those that ‘put in’ by answering the multitude of questions cannot get anything out without having their debates and threads highjacked and invaded by a lot of inane, banal, off-topic drivel. Those that ‘take out’ by having their questions answered should ‘put in’ by supporting the maintenance of an environment in which serious debate can take place and not accusing those who wish to do this of being ‘elitist’.
I would like to think that the situation will improve, but somehow I doubt it. In fact, my parting comment would be ………
Porcine Aviators
What has this got to do with DIY audio? About as much as the majority of posts being made these days. So far as content is concerned, diyAudio has now become analogous to the Audio Asylum, something that certainly couldn't have been said 12 months ago.
Grey, myself and others in the past have tried to prevent the progressive decline in standards at the forum but without success. Eric has recently picked up the baton with his thread on ‘diyAudio netiquette’ but, as seems to be the norm these days, the thread has degenerated into the usual mix of useful comments lost in a morass of unrelated or irrelevant opinion. Grey has voiced our mutual concerns most eloquently in the aforementioned thread so I won’t repeat them here, but there is one thing I would like to add.
It seems to be expected by the newer and/or less experienced members of the forum that there will always be an ‘elder’ available and willing to help them with a question, no matter how trivial it may be. However, the question has to be asked as to why these ‘elders’ become and remain members. Is it solely an altruistic desire to pass on their hard-earned knowledge and experience to novices, some of whom appear to have little desire to research anything for themselves? This may be true in a few instances, but I suggest that the majority wish to receive something back from the forum in exchange for the hours spent typing replies to basic questions.
This ‘something’ is the ability to discuss and exchange views on the more esoteric or advanced aspects of audio engineering, whether it be amplifier design, speaker construction or whatever, in an environment that is conducive to this type of debate. However, judging by the comments in the ‘netiquette’ thread, this desire appears to be considered ‘elitist’ by those members who do not understand, or are not interested in, the topics under discussion.
As someone said in Eric’s thread, “you get out what you put in” – or at least you should do. Currently, those that ‘put in’ by answering the multitude of questions cannot get anything out without having their debates and threads highjacked and invaded by a lot of inane, banal, off-topic drivel. Those that ‘take out’ by having their questions answered should ‘put in’ by supporting the maintenance of an environment in which serious debate can take place and not accusing those who wish to do this of being ‘elitist’.
I would like to think that the situation will improve, but somehow I doubt it. In fact, my parting comment would be ………
Porcine Aviators
Attachments
i was the person who said that you should get out of it what you put into it.
ive not been a member THAT long here, but for about 6 months i guess. and i have seen a change. however, as stated in the other netiquette thread, which NO ONE got, it is a natural change. right now, the forum is in a down point. no one is discussing much of any worth, and it is almost as you describe it. but one key word comes to mind, perserverance. (sorry, my spelling sucks, deal.)
if you were to leave, and a lot of the others left with you. and let's say you formed your own forum (not a bad idea...). it would take a little while for it to get established. then, once established, it would have a new influx of newbies every so often, and this is natural and common to growth of anything. eventually, it would succumb to the same tribulations that this forum (in my opinion) is dealing with quite adequately.
i honestly think some of the elders have lost their enthusiasm. i am still new to this, and i dont have the long history with it that many of you do. quite frankly, this is the best forum i have found, and its great. there is a lot of useful information. now, to YOU, this might not be the case, since you have exhausted this resource... but, if this is the case, why don't all you "elders" that are bored with it spark some new discussion.
i find this next topic very poignant. you complain (not negatively, but nonethelss you do), that newbies are just wanting information but not wanting to contribute. well, you say there needs to be more further thinking and advanced information for the established... arent you creating a double standard here? you expect the newbies to contribute, but all the while you expect to get information too.
once again, i come back to my statement, which i will stick by, becuase it rings true, and most certainly, it has been overlooked as merely a catchy phrase whereas it is much more.
you only get out of it what you put into it.
ive not been a member THAT long here, but for about 6 months i guess. and i have seen a change. however, as stated in the other netiquette thread, which NO ONE got, it is a natural change. right now, the forum is in a down point. no one is discussing much of any worth, and it is almost as you describe it. but one key word comes to mind, perserverance. (sorry, my spelling sucks, deal.)
if you were to leave, and a lot of the others left with you. and let's say you formed your own forum (not a bad idea...). it would take a little while for it to get established. then, once established, it would have a new influx of newbies every so often, and this is natural and common to growth of anything. eventually, it would succumb to the same tribulations that this forum (in my opinion) is dealing with quite adequately.
i honestly think some of the elders have lost their enthusiasm. i am still new to this, and i dont have the long history with it that many of you do. quite frankly, this is the best forum i have found, and its great. there is a lot of useful information. now, to YOU, this might not be the case, since you have exhausted this resource... but, if this is the case, why don't all you "elders" that are bored with it spark some new discussion.
i find this next topic very poignant. you complain (not negatively, but nonethelss you do), that newbies are just wanting information but not wanting to contribute. well, you say there needs to be more further thinking and advanced information for the established... arent you creating a double standard here? you expect the newbies to contribute, but all the while you expect to get information too.
once again, i come back to my statement, which i will stick by, becuase it rings true, and most certainly, it has been overlooked as merely a catchy phrase whereas it is much more.
you only get out of it what you put into it.
Pig Latin
Geoff, if you think this has sunk to the level of Audio Asylum I think you need to need to read it again for awhile. I still find some great disscussions on this forum and plan to stick around for awhile. There is some fluff and rudeness but that's life. I wish you and Grey the best but I think you will be back. I think it is fairly easy to stear the topics to the area of one's interest by posting on those subjects.. Perhaps more proactive rather than reactive posting is the answer for some of the dissapointed members of the forum. I too would love more civility on the forum, and in the world. But I find some of the people who complain the loudest about it seem to be just as uncivil as the so called offenders they are so quick to criticize. I also think there are plenty of links for learning that go beyond the depth achievable in the context of a forum, and that the forum is a great place to make people aware of them. There also many textbooks and magazines on subjects of interest here that can be mentioned.
H.H.
Geoff, if you think this has sunk to the level of Audio Asylum I think you need to need to read it again for awhile. I still find some great disscussions on this forum and plan to stick around for awhile. There is some fluff and rudeness but that's life. I wish you and Grey the best but I think you will be back. I think it is fairly easy to stear the topics to the area of one's interest by posting on those subjects.. Perhaps more proactive rather than reactive posting is the answer for some of the dissapointed members of the forum. I too would love more civility on the forum, and in the world. But I find some of the people who complain the loudest about it seem to be just as uncivil as the so called offenders they are so quick to criticize. I also think there are plenty of links for learning that go beyond the depth achievable in the context of a forum, and that the forum is a great place to make people aware of them. There also many textbooks and magazines on subjects of interest here that can be mentioned.
H.H.
The terrible irony is that cowanrg accuses Geoff of not "getting it" and in so doing demonstrates conclusively that he himself isn't understanding what Geoff wrote.
As for Harry's post...irony redoubled.
Yea, verily, I feel a story coming on. Character studies such as these are far too good to waste.
Geoff,
"May the wind under your wings bear you where the sun sails and the moon walks."
Grey
As for Harry's post...irony redoubled.
Yea, verily, I feel a story coming on. Character studies such as these are far too good to waste.
Geoff,
"May the wind under your wings bear you where the sun sails and the moon walks."
Grey
May we meet again 
)
Hi Geoff.
I know exactly how You feel.
I'm not new to this forum either, and used to enjoy reading through the threads, and give whatever I could.
I have seen the decay too, and I don't like it either, but I haven't left yet. Don't ask me why.
As I see it, the decay is caused for the very reasons You mention, and I don't understand those people who join a serious forum, like this used to be, because it is serious, and then fill it with nonsens.
Can anybody enlighten me please.
Fare well, Geoff.
)Hi Geoff.
I know exactly how You feel.
I'm not new to this forum either, and used to enjoy reading through the threads, and give whatever I could.
I have seen the decay too, and I don't like it either, but I haven't left yet. Don't ask me why.
As I see it, the decay is caused for the very reasons You mention, and I don't understand those people who join a serious forum, like this used to be, because it is serious, and then fill it with nonsens.
Can anybody enlighten me please.
Fare well, Geoff.
As for Harry's post...irony redoubled
I see no irony in it but unlike some others I guess I wasn't looking for it. Try reading what's there instead of trying to read things into it. I am really not that complicated a guy, honest!
"Yea, verily, I feel a story coming on. Character studies such as these are far too good to waste."
I would love to read some of your fiction, just not of this forum please.
Thanks again,
H.H.
I see no irony in it but unlike some others I guess I wasn't looking for it. Try reading what's there instead of trying to read things into it. I am really not that complicated a guy, honest!
"Yea, verily, I feel a story coming on. Character studies such as these are far too good to waste."
I would love to read some of your fiction, just not of this forum please.
Thanks again,
H.H.
Geoff,
I guess Peter beat me to it. I was drinking a Coke while surfing and it damn near shoot up my nose when I got to your post! It is so hilarious I can hardly contain myself.
So what are you going to do? Remove the bookmark, clear your internet explorer (or netscape) history and cookies and never, ever set foot on diyaudio.com again?
Since you went Latin I'll go Italian: do you know the meaning of "primadonna"?? Because that's what you are.
This site it what it is, as someone else said you are getting out what you put in and you haven't really been putting in much lately besides your occasional bitching and moaning about how this site sucks. I don't know what goes around behind the scenes here between you, Jason Grey and the other elders I never really been part, or wanted to be part of the club, god knows I put up with enough of this ******** at work everyday.
I don't know what do you do for a living, I spend about 50 hours a week at work + 20 hours commuting, I have tons of components all the alephX parts on my bench collecting dust just because I have no time to do dick, let alone spending hours a day sharing my thoughts and ideas about esoteric aspects of audio. I bet quite a few other people have this exact same problem.
I love to sit down five minutes at night to see what people have been up to, I love to see pictures of other people's creations that make me dream about what I could be doing if I had the time. I often get annoyed by stupid posts an take quite a few cheap shots in return. If I had time to do it I would have set up an entrance examination in electronics conditional for getting membership so that bungholes like "gromanswe" would at least have to think for a minute before being able to unleash their poetic side.
Grey has initiated the greatest threads, he had the balls and the time to do it. I think that what he and other users have been able to accomplish in the past couple of years has been absolutely exceptional and that has been possible in considerable part because of this site.
I agree this is probably a low cycle in the site, but the boat is doing just fine and nowhere about to sink.
So long,
I guess Peter beat me to it. I was drinking a Coke while surfing and it damn near shoot up my nose when I got to your post! It is so hilarious I can hardly contain myself.
So what are you going to do? Remove the bookmark, clear your internet explorer (or netscape) history and cookies and never, ever set foot on diyaudio.com again?
Since you went Latin I'll go Italian: do you know the meaning of "primadonna"?? Because that's what you are.
This site it what it is, as someone else said you are getting out what you put in and you haven't really been putting in much lately besides your occasional bitching and moaning about how this site sucks. I don't know what goes around behind the scenes here between you, Jason Grey and the other elders I never really been part, or wanted to be part of the club, god knows I put up with enough of this ******** at work everyday.
I don't know what do you do for a living, I spend about 50 hours a week at work + 20 hours commuting, I have tons of components all the alephX parts on my bench collecting dust just because I have no time to do dick, let alone spending hours a day sharing my thoughts and ideas about esoteric aspects of audio. I bet quite a few other people have this exact same problem.
I love to sit down five minutes at night to see what people have been up to, I love to see pictures of other people's creations that make me dream about what I could be doing if I had the time. I often get annoyed by stupid posts an take quite a few cheap shots in return. If I had time to do it I would have set up an entrance examination in electronics conditional for getting membership so that bungholes like "gromanswe" would at least have to think for a minute before being able to unleash their poetic side.
Grey has initiated the greatest threads, he had the balls and the time to do it. I think that what he and other users have been able to accomplish in the past couple of years has been absolutely exceptional and that has been possible in considerable part because of this site.
I agree this is probably a low cycle in the site, but the boat is doing just fine and nowhere about to sink.
So long,
awesome post grataku.
hum, somehow no one knows who i am. i keep getting referred to as "someone". oh well, its not like i have almost 300 posts, er, wait, yes i do
i think its funny how dramatic people get when they leave a forum.
this is for geoff,
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! dont leave us!
(is that what you really expected?)
hum, somehow no one knows who i am. i keep getting referred to as "someone". oh well, its not like i have almost 300 posts, er, wait, yes i do
i think its funny how dramatic people get when they leave a forum.
this is for geoff,
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! dont leave us!
(is that what you really expected?)
If you place a 27.36 lbs slate of marble under your monitor, and attach 4 gold spikes(for feet) on the marble, you will notice a dramatic inprovement in DIYaudio.com. A "veil" will be lifted, so to speak. You will notice a cheerier tone to the posts, and more educated response. The "crap" you now see in this forum will be shunted through the decoupling spikes. The rediculous threads(i.e. that of gromanswe) will not resonate in the marble, effectively removing them. This tweak will cost you approx. $75usd, but it is definatley worth it. It is the most bang-for-your-buck, as far as "forum quality" goes.
How's that for "Audio Asylum"-ish?
P.S.
Jason - Don't be insulted. 99% of us greatly appreciate the time and effort you put into this forum. Thank you. P.S.S.
Gromanswe - Just pulling your leg. I find your posts to be quite amusing.
Well I must say it's a little sad to see the true Elders of this site leaving. I too have noticed the steep decline in intellectually stimulating or thought provoking conversation and it is sadly missed.
Geoff,
On reflection, I know we didnt get off on the best of footing but I have enjoyed your contribution to this community and I wish you the best of luck in the future. Farewell.
Regards,
Daniel Flynn.
Geoff,
On reflection, I know we didnt get off on the best of footing but I have enjoyed your contribution to this community and I wish you the best of luck in the future. Farewell.
Regards,
Daniel Flynn.
Hi Geoff, sad to see you leave if that is so, for I have enjoyed your experiences and communications.
I am of similar mind, however I find it difficult to tear myself away from the gems of really good information that pop up hear, lest I miss something important.
The knowledgable elders here are invaluable by any standard.
The seemingly stupid thread starter questions sometimes get transformed into threads containing wonderful information, so therefore I do not begrudge the questioner.
However I do begrudge the rudeness and just plain ridiculousness of the types of Mr Slice and Mr Groman etc. and some others.
In my experience, in polite company, if a statement or observation is made and not understood, then polite questions for clarification or explanation are asked, and sensible answers given.
Of course this is constructive social intercourse.
I am very much dissapointed by the amount of inexperienced negativaty and auto naysaying that is becoming the more usual around here, in addition to the lack of informed replying to questions asked, and the tactic of belittling a poster, and not actually adding anything constructive.
Of late, I would say that a member here who calls himself Chris8, is a prime example of these negativety tactics, and when asked straight answers, is unable or unwilling to do so, and instead diverts away, makes accusations and barbs that he then proves to be guilty of himself.
And this fellow is listed as a moderator on this forum.
If this is the intellectual and social standard around here I say that it needs to be upgraded, or the moderator changed.
Geoff, if you do find a better forum, please tell us about it.
Good luck, and farewell,
Regards, Eric.
I am of similar mind, however I find it difficult to tear myself away from the gems of really good information that pop up hear, lest I miss something important.
The knowledgable elders here are invaluable by any standard.
The seemingly stupid thread starter questions sometimes get transformed into threads containing wonderful information, so therefore I do not begrudge the questioner.
However I do begrudge the rudeness and just plain ridiculousness of the types of Mr Slice and Mr Groman etc. and some others.
In my experience, in polite company, if a statement or observation is made and not understood, then polite questions for clarification or explanation are asked, and sensible answers given.
Of course this is constructive social intercourse.
I am very much dissapointed by the amount of inexperienced negativaty and auto naysaying that is becoming the more usual around here, in addition to the lack of informed replying to questions asked, and the tactic of belittling a poster, and not actually adding anything constructive.
Of late, I would say that a member here who calls himself Chris8, is a prime example of these negativety tactics, and when asked straight answers, is unable or unwilling to do so, and instead diverts away, makes accusations and barbs that he then proves to be guilty of himself.
And this fellow is listed as a moderator on this forum.
If this is the intellectual and social standard around here I say that it needs to be upgraded, or the moderator changed.
Geoff, if you do find a better forum, please tell us about it.
Good luck, and farewell,
Regards, Eric.
"when asked straight answers, is unable or unwilling to do so, and instead diverts away,"
Really? You are the one who presents questions that have no bearing of relevance on the discussion. Then you wonder why they are not answered?
" makes accusations and barbs that he then proves to be guilty of himself."
Citations please.
"And this fellow is listed as a moderator on this forum.
If this is the intellectual and social standard around here I say that it needs to be upgraded, or the moderator changed"
I don't care for you either.
Please by all means, report me to the site owner, Jason, if you have a real gripe with me.
-Chris
Really? You are the one who presents questions that have no bearing of relevance on the discussion. Then you wonder why they are not answered?
" makes accusations and barbs that he then proves to be guilty of himself."
Citations please.
"And this fellow is listed as a moderator on this forum.
If this is the intellectual and social standard around here I say that it needs to be upgraded, or the moderator changed"
I don't care for you either.
Please by all means, report me to the site owner, Jason, if you have a real gripe with me.
-Chris
Geoff,
do not leave - this forum still needs you and you contributions.
We others (like myself who has much less to give than to take from here) greatly appreciate the inputs from the "knowledgeable crew", to which I would count you too.
So please do have a look from time to time - although it better sometimes just not to respond ...
regards
Klaus
do not leave - this forum still needs you and you contributions.
We others (like myself who has much less to give than to take from here) greatly appreciate the inputs from the "knowledgeable crew", to which I would count you too.
So please do have a look from time to time - although it better sometimes just not to respond ...
regards
Klaus
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