Where is Herr Holler?
You might be right. I find it somewhat odd that he could be booted, whereas a 17 yr. old who drops F-bombs and attacks anyone who posts a reply he doesn't agree with is still here. Especially after it has been brought to the attention of those in charge.
Yes, Hairy is a pain sometimes.......ok, most of the time........well alright, all of the time. But there does not appear to be a FAQ section that explains:
"This forum is for amateur DIYers only. Engineers, experienced designers, anyone with a sense of humour is discouraged from participating. Posting of gratuitous images and obscure links is frowned upon. Recommended only for beginners having trouble matching MOSFETs."
Jocko
You might be right. I find it somewhat odd that he could be booted, whereas a 17 yr. old who drops F-bombs and attacks anyone who posts a reply he doesn't agree with is still here. Especially after it has been brought to the attention of those in charge.
Yes, Hairy is a pain sometimes.......ok, most of the time........well alright, all of the time. But there does not appear to be a FAQ section that explains:
"This forum is for amateur DIYers only. Engineers, experienced designers, anyone with a sense of humour is discouraged from participating. Posting of gratuitous images and obscure links is frowned upon. Recommended only for beginners having trouble matching MOSFETs."
Jocko
Before anyone manages to work themselves into a froth over any part I might have played in this...
1) No, I did not boot him from the DIY member list, nor did I deny him access, etc. etc. etc.
2) I have had no private communications with Harry at all, ever. I have no information on his intentions or whereabouts.
3) Jocko, it's not that EE folk aren't welcome, per se, its overbearing attitudes that aren't welcome. In the same vein, I might add that neither is there a FAQ that says,"This site is for EEs only. Beginners are not welcome and will be ridiculed, humiliated, and insulted."
4) Jocko, I found your CCS thread to be quite nice (and the tone mild...thumbs up), I would like to request that you consider adding to it. You, unlike Harry, seem to have moderated your tone considerably. For this, I thank you. Really. Two thumbs up.
5) I don't think the member Jocko refers to will do it again. Hopefully, he will maintain his composure. (If he does not, someone please let me know! I can't cover all the threads any more, and I depend on others to let me know if something is awry.) This is in contradistinction to Harry, who maintained his abrasiveness in spite of repeated requests to lighten up from numerous other members, not just me.
6) Humor is a subjective thing. The things that Harry found funny were not funny to a large number of members. I'm not saying they were offensive, just not funny. Pointless. Empty. Null set. Foolish. Sometimes childish. Frankly, I found the Man/Woman picture hilarious (yes, I know that was Helix), and my wife even more so (she maintains that the Woman chassis needs far <i>more</i> knobs and buttons...none with labels, mind you...their effect must be uncalibrated, random, and unpredictable), but I am unable to encourage such things for two reasons: First, some folks here seem to feel that if you give them an inch, then they'll take two miles. Second, there's still the modem/bandwidth problem.
7) There seem to have been three types of response to Harry. A--people who hung on his every word. B--people who deplored his behavior, but tolerated it in order to see if they could glean any useful information. C--people for whom the price was too high; there was simply no way to get past the behavior.
Harry thought class A and B were larger than they really were.
There were a lot more people in the C class than anyone realized.
Personally, I was somewhere between B and C, but even on B days, I was getting quite a bit of e-mail from people in the C class, and as moderator, I cannot tolerate someone who intimidates even a single member. As I said elsewhere, the playing field <i>must</i> be level.
8) It pains me to say it, but the e-mail I'm receiving tends in tone towards the scene near the end of <i>The Wizard of Oz</i> where everyone is singing,"Ding, dong, the witch is dead..." It should not be that way. No one should be <i>that</i> unpopular. Unfortunately, Harry brought it upon himself.
9) I wish Harry success, prosperity, and happiness, just not at the expense of others.
Grey
1) No, I did not boot him from the DIY member list, nor did I deny him access, etc. etc. etc.
2) I have had no private communications with Harry at all, ever. I have no information on his intentions or whereabouts.
3) Jocko, it's not that EE folk aren't welcome, per se, its overbearing attitudes that aren't welcome. In the same vein, I might add that neither is there a FAQ that says,"This site is for EEs only. Beginners are not welcome and will be ridiculed, humiliated, and insulted."
4) Jocko, I found your CCS thread to be quite nice (and the tone mild...thumbs up), I would like to request that you consider adding to it. You, unlike Harry, seem to have moderated your tone considerably. For this, I thank you. Really. Two thumbs up.
5) I don't think the member Jocko refers to will do it again. Hopefully, he will maintain his composure. (If he does not, someone please let me know! I can't cover all the threads any more, and I depend on others to let me know if something is awry.) This is in contradistinction to Harry, who maintained his abrasiveness in spite of repeated requests to lighten up from numerous other members, not just me.
6) Humor is a subjective thing. The things that Harry found funny were not funny to a large number of members. I'm not saying they were offensive, just not funny. Pointless. Empty. Null set. Foolish. Sometimes childish. Frankly, I found the Man/Woman picture hilarious (yes, I know that was Helix), and my wife even more so (she maintains that the Woman chassis needs far <i>more</i> knobs and buttons...none with labels, mind you...their effect must be uncalibrated, random, and unpredictable), but I am unable to encourage such things for two reasons: First, some folks here seem to feel that if you give them an inch, then they'll take two miles. Second, there's still the modem/bandwidth problem.
7) There seem to have been three types of response to Harry. A--people who hung on his every word. B--people who deplored his behavior, but tolerated it in order to see if they could glean any useful information. C--people for whom the price was too high; there was simply no way to get past the behavior.
Harry thought class A and B were larger than they really were.
There were a lot more people in the C class than anyone realized.
Personally, I was somewhere between B and C, but even on B days, I was getting quite a bit of e-mail from people in the C class, and as moderator, I cannot tolerate someone who intimidates even a single member. As I said elsewhere, the playing field <i>must</i> be level.
8) It pains me to say it, but the e-mail I'm receiving tends in tone towards the scene near the end of <i>The Wizard of Oz</i> where everyone is singing,"Ding, dong, the witch is dead..." It should not be that way. No one should be <i>that</i> unpopular. Unfortunately, Harry brought it upon himself.
9) I wish Harry success, prosperity, and happiness, just not at the expense of others.
Grey
Where's Harry
I hear he took some time off to play golf with Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa. It does seem odd that someone who couldn't resist jumping in all the time just suddenly goes silent. I hope this doesn't stifel any attempts at humor or anyone posting something too technical or contrary to popular views. I, for one, could use a gratuitous image or a snooty comment occaisionally just to break up the status quo. I hope everyone doesn't feel inhibited from a little fun or humor by this mysterious dissapearence.
Grey, could Harry have eliminated his own profile out of spite or maybe Jason eliminated it? I guess it really isn't important since the furor seems to have died down.......
Ren
I hear he took some time off to play golf with Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa. It does seem odd that someone who couldn't resist jumping in all the time just suddenly goes silent. I hope this doesn't stifel any attempts at humor or anyone posting something too technical or contrary to popular views. I, for one, could use a gratuitous image or a snooty comment occaisionally just to break up the status quo. I hope everyone doesn't feel inhibited from a little fun or humor by this mysterious dissapearence.
Grey, could Harry have eliminated his own profile out of spite or maybe Jason eliminated it? I guess it really isn't important since the furor seems to have died down.......
Ren
To Harry....
I would like to add that I value having H.H. around very much!
My other posts were directed entirely at the tone that he has used much of the time - not whether or not he was welcome....
Just as others pointed out to Slice that certain behavior was not appropriate, it was my hope that H.H. might consider stepping down off the pedestal a bit because not all of us are EE's or interested in who knows the most...
Often, I do/did find some of his posts/pics very funny...
I also value his experience/comments regarding circuit topology... He knows a lot and we can all learn from his experience!!!
So H.H. my hope is that you aren't gone and don't feel unappreciated but rather you understand that not everyone enjoys dealing with attitude all of the time...
Like anything else, a little attitude is good, a lot can kill you...
Hoping that you're still around and doing well,
Steve
I would like to add that I value having H.H. around very much!
My other posts were directed entirely at the tone that he has used much of the time - not whether or not he was welcome....
Just as others pointed out to Slice that certain behavior was not appropriate, it was my hope that H.H. might consider stepping down off the pedestal a bit because not all of us are EE's or interested in who knows the most...
Often, I do/did find some of his posts/pics very funny...
I also value his experience/comments regarding circuit topology... He knows a lot and we can all learn from his experience!!!
So H.H. my hope is that you aren't gone and don't feel unappreciated but rather you understand that not everyone enjoys dealing with attitude all of the time...
Like anything else, a little attitude is good, a lot can kill you...
Hoping that you're still around and doing well,
Steve
Enough already with Harry!
If you keep talking about him, will come back and we will go through all this again. I notice his profile is back on the members page and it is my guess that here we go again.
"not all of us are EE's or interested in who knows the most... "
"I also value his experience/comments regarding circuit topology... He knows a lot and we can all learn from his experience!!!"
Witch is it?
Ren
If you keep talking about him, will come back and we will go through all this again. I notice his profile is back on the members page and it is my guess that here we go again.
"not all of us are EE's or interested in who knows the most... "
"I also value his experience/comments regarding circuit topology... He knows a lot and we can all learn from his experience!!!"
Witch is it?
Ren
H.H. Smart author => stupid reader
All,
happy to read Grey gives Jocko the credit on-list i gave him in private email, and i want to repeat my apology to Jocko on-list. I have included him in complaints about rude manners i should have pointed at H.H, alone.
*** Rant mode on ***
As a German engineer who wants to learn and grow, i have learned to loathe and avoid German engineer authors because they manage
1st
to appear utterly smart and knowing and
2nd
to make the reader feel like knowing nothing and hardly able to count to ten.
Many sublte techniques to achieve the 2nd can be observed but the main ones are:
* omitting information vital for the reader to get a complete picture,
* spitting out more knowledge per time unit than the reader can handle,
* belittling, humbling.
For the record, there exist a few exceptions. I know it, i have some of them on my shelf. But 90% of my of my engineering books are from American authors who strive to make the reader knowing and understanding. I like that. I woldn't have survived math courses, particularly differential equations, without a certain American book which even was hard to read for me back then, my command of the language not being the one i have today. Even with the language barrier built-in, it was enlightening!
Ok, back to topic, i experienced H.H. so far as the worst imaginable example of the German engineer author attitude described above.
Some forum members have praised H.H.s deep and solid knowledge. Can be. But i am not convinced. Spitting out more (incomplete) knowledge per time time unit than the reader can handle is one thing. Helping together to get a result quite another. Nevertheless the one or the other forum member has managed to get his thing working with (or should i say in spite of, mean and biased me!! tutut
) H.H.s help.
As a fairly experienced design engineer (with no flawed result so far and proud of it) i often faced bullying attitude from fellow engineers appearing utterly smart while belittling others all the time. Were they really that smart ??
It eventually became apparent to me that their abrasiveness made it impossible for me to evaluate how deep and solid their knowledge really was and how the progress of their share of work was. In almost every case it became apparent later on that the particular engineer's part of work was seriously flawed, sometimes because of basic mistakes, sometimes because of being arrogant and misjudgings problems and always because of seriously flawed communication with other team members.
OTOH, those guys with open communcation manners and friendly, happy, "we are a team" attitude and "c'mon, let's solve it" attitude could never be observed bullying and belittling. And could never be observed to deliver flawed results. It was a pure joy to work with them and to learn from them.
*** Rant mode off ***
Grey,
second your points 3 to 7,
8: i am afraid i have to admit i join the "Ding, dong, the witch is dead..." crowd
9: having read your Aleph X thread and H.H.s insidious reponses when you called him to order, I bow in respect to you that you find such mild words. I can't.
All,
happy to read Grey gives Jocko the credit on-list i gave him in private email, and i want to repeat my apology to Jocko on-list. I have included him in complaints about rude manners i should have pointed at H.H, alone.
*** Rant mode on ***
As a German engineer who wants to learn and grow, i have learned to loathe and avoid German engineer authors because they manage
1st
to appear utterly smart and knowing and
2nd
to make the reader feel like knowing nothing and hardly able to count to ten.
Many sublte techniques to achieve the 2nd can be observed but the main ones are:
* omitting information vital for the reader to get a complete picture,
* spitting out more knowledge per time unit than the reader can handle,
* belittling, humbling.
For the record, there exist a few exceptions. I know it, i have some of them on my shelf. But 90% of my of my engineering books are from American authors who strive to make the reader knowing and understanding. I like that. I woldn't have survived math courses, particularly differential equations, without a certain American book which even was hard to read for me back then, my command of the language not being the one i have today. Even with the language barrier built-in, it was enlightening!
Ok, back to topic, i experienced H.H. so far as the worst imaginable example of the German engineer author attitude described above.
Some forum members have praised H.H.s deep and solid knowledge. Can be. But i am not convinced. Spitting out more (incomplete) knowledge per time time unit than the reader can handle is one thing. Helping together to get a result quite another. Nevertheless the one or the other forum member has managed to get his thing working with (or should i say in spite of, mean and biased me!! tutut
) H.H.s help.As a fairly experienced design engineer (with no flawed result so far and proud of it) i often faced bullying attitude from fellow engineers appearing utterly smart while belittling others all the time. Were they really that smart ??
It eventually became apparent to me that their abrasiveness made it impossible for me to evaluate how deep and solid their knowledge really was and how the progress of their share of work was. In almost every case it became apparent later on that the particular engineer's part of work was seriously flawed, sometimes because of basic mistakes, sometimes because of being arrogant and misjudgings problems and always because of seriously flawed communication with other team members.
OTOH, those guys with open communcation manners and friendly, happy, "we are a team" attitude and "c'mon, let's solve it" attitude could never be observed bullying and belittling. And could never be observed to deliver flawed results. It was a pure joy to work with them and to learn from them.
*** Rant mode off ***
Grey,
second your points 3 to 7,
8: i am afraid i have to admit i join the "Ding, dong, the witch is dead..." crowd
9: having read your Aleph X thread and H.H.s insidious reponses when you called him to order, I bow in respect to you that you find such mild words. I can't.
You wouldn't be referring to me would you Jocko?
Hey, I've NEVER dropped the F-bomb on this site or any other, although I did say something else recently. I don't know where your coming from. Also, I don't "attack" anyone who replies with something I don't agree with, I just tell them why I don't agree, like anyone else.
Now as for guys that wear stupid hats and attack anyone and everyone, I don't know what they're still doing here
P.S. I'm only 16. Scary huh?
If You're referring to me, you make it sound like I'm in some sort of trouble. I have not been notified of such a thing, and I don't know what you're talking about. If it is about that post on my latest (is progress the best word?), I'm sorry if it offends someone, but no one said anything (and I'm not the only one).
Please clarify, maybe via private e-mail, depending on what you have to say.
Hey, I've NEVER dropped the F-bomb on this site or any other, although I did say something else recently. I don't know where your coming from. Also, I don't "attack" anyone who replies with something I don't agree with, I just tell them why I don't agree, like anyone else.
Now as for guys that wear stupid hats and attack anyone and everyone, I don't know what they're still doing here
P.S. I'm only 16. Scary huh?
If You're referring to me, you make it sound like I'm in some sort of trouble. I have not been notified of such a thing, and I don't know what you're talking about. If it is about that post on my latest (is progress the best word?), I'm sorry if it offends someone, but no one said anything (and I'm not the only one).
Please clarify, maybe via private e-mail, depending on what you have to say.
You wouldn't be referring to me would you Jocko?
"i asked this in the other form as well but noone told me why.....
what the f$%k is wrong with crown! give me evudence that they are bad....you guy say they are bad....why are they bad.....
you guy are creating more questions for me......"
Please don't be offended. He has you confused with another teenager with less maturity than you. Having a guilty conscience?
Ah, to be young again....... but they say youth is wasted on the young.
Peace Man,
H.H.
"i asked this in the other form as well but noone told me why.....
what the f$%k is wrong with crown! give me evudence that they are bad....you guy say they are bad....why are they bad.....
you guy are creating more questions for me......"
Please don't be offended. He has you confused with another teenager with less maturity than you. Having a guilty conscience?
Ah, to be young again....... but they say youth is wasted on the young.
Peace Man,
H.H.
I'm sure you can see
We are all teenagers at heart, right Dice45?
"OTOH, those guys with open communcation manners and friendly, happy, "we are a team" attitude and "c'mon, let's solve it" attitude could never be observed bullying and belittling. And could never be observed to deliver flawed results. It was a pure joy to work with them and to learn from them. "
I think Jocko and I want to work there!
H.H.
We are all teenagers at heart, right Dice45?
"OTOH, those guys with open communcation manners and friendly, happy, "we are a team" attitude and "c'mon, let's solve it" attitude could never be observed bullying and belittling. And could never be observed to deliver flawed results. It was a pure joy to work with them and to learn from them. "
I think Jocko and I want to work there!
H.H.
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