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Hybrid fourdoor 11th July 2004 01:02 AM

Time Travel....a concern not really mentioned
 
Since you guys are soooo wise :D

When you time travel, its assumed that your time line seperates from everything else or it simply "slows down" compared to everything around you.

So in the movies (like The Time Machine), everything accellerates very quickly around you or in many case <movies> you simply appear where you were at a different point in time (of course this is probably how it would appear to the normal world once your X,Y,Z and Time coordinates allign with theirs).

But I'm wondering, could this be flawed by the Human nature of thinking we are the center of existance. At any given point in time the Earth, the Galaxy, the Universe are all moving. So if we were to slow down our own time and everything around us continued at a normal pace, would we infact start moving away from the Earth?

If we went back in time, say 5 hours, could we end up within the Earths crust since its point of revolution would be different 5 hours ago. Or even go back 5 minutes, could I end up in a wall due to the rotation changing? Or if we went back 10,000 years could we infact end up somewhere in space waiting for our solar system to arrive at that point in space?

I've just never heard anyone mention this before, yet it sounds so relavent and possible.

Sch3mat1c 11th July 2004 01:13 AM

No, because 1. you're still moving at the same speed and 2. the minute forces that drag you along the surface still exist. Of course, the only time travel as we know it, is forwards by going in a rocket ship up near the speed of light, something obviously impossible standing still. (Or, you could accelerate within nanoseconds to very near the speed of light and decelerate similarly, but the matter of being a mess on what's left (nothing) of the back wall makes this somewhat impractical.) If you consider a time machine which can travel seemingly standing still, particularly one able to go either direction, then the laws of physics need not apply and you can guess all sorts of things from magnified gravity to antigravity to standing still to floating through space in doing so. Point being, it's all fictional so the sky's the limit. You have left reality, you are now entering... the Twilight Zone........ :D

Tim

Hybrid fourdoor 11th July 2004 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sch3mat1c
No, because 1. you're still moving at the same speed
As what? The rotation of the Earth? Its revolution? The movement of the Solar System?

If you "stop" time, you are not at the same speed as them.

rcavictim 11th July 2004 02:10 AM

Is there now a DIY Time Machine forum at DiyAudio? If someone has working plans I'll take a stab at building the device. Is it available in kit form? How much does it cost? :eek:

kiwi_abroad 11th July 2004 02:35 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Just to pull this thread back to Audio, What do you guys think about the rear speakers on the Delorian from "Back to The Future"??
:cool:

Sch3mat1c 11th July 2004 06:07 AM

Eheh, might make some good sound reinforcement at a rock concert. Just swap out the time circuits for a bigazz amp, use the flux capacitor for "power supply stiffening" and Mr. Fusion for power. :D

Tim

zagisrule! 12th July 2004 03:45 AM

Didn't you know there is a group order for the time-machine PCB's going on?

Where have you guys been? Trapped in 2004 it seems! The rest of us are using our time machines to come back in time and post things like 1this!








Hahahahaha :) :D


-Matt

Schaef 12th July 2004 12:47 PM

Re: Time Travel....a concern not really mentioned
 
Actually, this very thing was covered in a short story by either Asimov or Clarke, I can't remember which. (So, obviously, right now, I can't remember the title of the story or what book I read it in) The two people traveled backwards in time to witness the big bang (I believe) and when they came back to the present, or as close as they could get, the Earth and solar system had moved on and they were left floating in space. If it was an Asimov short story, it might be in "Robot Dreams" or if its a Clarke story, it might be in the same collection with "The Star" (Which went on to become 2001). Unfortunately, I can't be more sure beyond that right now.


Quote:

Originally posted by Hybrid fourdoor
Since you guys are soooo wise :D

When you time travel, its assumed that your time line seperates from everything else or it simply "slows down" compared to everything around you.

So in the movies (like The Time Machine), everything accellerates very quickly around you or in many case <movies> you simply appear where you were at a different point in time (of course this is probably how it would appear to the normal world once your X,Y,Z and Time coordinates allign with theirs).

But I'm wondering, could this be flawed by the Human nature of thinking we are the center of existance. At any given point in time the Earth, the Galaxy, the Universe are all moving. So if we were to slow down our own time and everything around us continued at a normal pace, would we infact start moving away from the Earth?

If we went back in time, say 5 hours, could we end up within the Earths crust since its point of revolution would be different 5 hours ago. Or even go back 5 minutes, could I end up in a wall due to the rotation changing? Or if we went back 10,000 years could we infact end up somewhere in space waiting for our solar system to arrive at that point in space?

I've just never heard anyone mention this before, yet it sounds so relavent and possible.


ThorstenL 12th July 2004 02:28 PM

Re: Time Travel....a concern not really mentioned
 
Konnichiwa,

Quote:

Originally posted by Hybrid fourdoor
When you time travel,
Within the constraints of the given MEST Universe (MEST - Matter Energy Space Time) timetravel remains one of the few "forbidden" things, as it viaolates several fundamental constraints and appearences (and you know how important it is to keep up appearances).

Hence the only way to "travel in time" is to do so where neither matter nor energy, space and time have any reality, in other words outside the MEST Universe. For the religeous we shall call this "G*d's realm" or "Heaven", for the Atheists we shall call it "hyperspace". Non of these terms make any sense in the true meaning of the word, they merely describe a place outside of that which we know.

As matter and time (and space as well as energy) are not present in this realm in the sense in which we understand it you can enter and exit this realm at any given "point" in the MEST Universe (among other implications of this thesis).

Hence a timemachine, be it build on physical (MEST Universe) technology (though I consider the chances of doing so EXTREMELY REMOTE) or with a spiritual (or psychical) technology, (such as posited by E.E. Smith in his Lenseman series and by the various occult researchers and orders throughout time) would operate in manner unobservable from inside the MEST Universe and equally the (subjective) time between departure and arrival would be zero, as time does not exist in transport media.

Quote:

Originally posted by Hybrid fourdoor
If we went back in time, say 5 hours, could we end up within the Earths crust since its point of revolution would be different 5 hours ago. Or even go back 5 minutes, could I end up in a wall due to the rotation changing? Or if we went back 10,000 years could we infact end up somewhere in space waiting for our solar system to arrive at that point in space?

I've just never heard anyone mention this before, yet it sounds so relavent and possible.

I have come across this in many novels and articles in the usual (SciFi - more Sci than Fi) literature. It, together with the fundamental causality (which was shown an illusion of perception byBishop Berkley and David Hume several centuries ago) where posited as agruments against physical timetravel.

Sayonara

RHosch 16th July 2004 07:30 PM

The physical laws of our universe do not appear to forbid time travel, but as of yet there does not appear to be a practical way to arrange matter and energy appropriately to do so. IIRC, negative energy is required for most configurations, and there is now quite a bit of evidence that it does exist (at least in some form of vacuum energy) but perhaps never in the densities required. However I believe there is at least one configuration that only requires positive masses and energies. Alas, it is about as impractical as they come as well. :)


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