Equipment burn-in explained ;-) - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > General Interest > Everything Else

Everything Else Anything related to audio / video / electronics etc) BUT remember- we have many new forums where your thread may now fit! .... Parts, Equipment & Tools, Construction Tips, Software Tools......

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th June 2004, 11:29 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Circlotron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Default Equipment burn-in explained ;-)

Have you ever walked into someone's house and it just plain stunk? If you could bear the first few minutes, you gradually begin to get used to it and after a while you don't even notice what was almost making you puke?

Have you ever slowly got into a hot bath on a cold day, and after a few minutes (assuming the water temperature stays the same) the water that felt boiling hot now feels just right?

Have you ever gone from natural light into 100% artificial light and for a while everything looks a shade of yellow but after a while the colours look right again, and when you go back out into the daylight all the colours look wrong for a while?

Have you ever drank a glass of wine and it tasted not that good, but you persisted with it and after a few bottles it tasted quite good? (This is so common it is referred to as an "acquired taste").

Have you ever been in a situation where there was some talking or noise that was distracting you, and without out even thinking about it you tuned out. When the noise suddenly stops this is when you realise it was still there.

Have you ever ever (with the exception of loudspeakers) attached something new to your listening setup, and it tok some time to perceive the difference? Or it took some time to get used to the difference?

Well, that's all five senses. How is hearing so utterly reliable compared to the rest? I say that what other people refer to as the burn-in period of their magic power cord or flux capacitor or whatever is simply their ear making some kind of adjustment. How it finally settles down to something it is happy with though, I don't know.
__________________
Best-ever T/S parameter spreadsheet.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...tml#post353269
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2004, 11:43 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Jan Dupont's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Send a message via MSN to Jan Dupont
Bingo
__________________
Free Schematic and Service Manual downloads www.audio-circuit.dk, Company: www.dupont-audio.com, Joint venture: www.DupontMantra.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2004, 11:58 AM   #3
dhaen is offline dhaen  Europe
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
dhaen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: U.K.
prezakerly....
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2004, 12:14 PM   #4
joensd is offline joensd  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Germany
Well said. And canīt be said often enough.
IMO an "audiophile" should never deny this or he is beyond reality.

Quote:
Have you ever drank a glass of wine and it tasted not that good, but you persisted with it and after a few bottles it tasted quite good? (This is so common it is referred to as an "acquired taste").
Well, I think that can have other reasons as well.

I always liked the comment from Nelson Pass himself (as THE subjectivist?) when he jumped in some subjectivist thread and said that itīs maybe just a burn-in of our ears. Canīt seem to find that one for now.


Must admit- I was deceived by my own ears
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2004, 05:23 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Sch3mat1c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Send a message via ICQ to Sch3mat1c Send a message via AIM to Sch3mat1c
Yup, works in reverse too (i.e. the novelty wears off), particularly after building an amp. My stereo 6V6 SE amp worked pretty good at the time but I'd much rather have these amps.

One very, very easily observed sign of adjustment is frequency response. Change the bass or tone on your amp, if it has such a control. Listen for a while. Maybe a few days. After a while you won't notice it (although because you'd have this statement in mind, you'd be testing yourself and you'll always know it's been changed).

Tim
__________________
Seven Transistor Labs
Projects and Resources
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2004, 06:28 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Steve Eddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Sch3mat1c
One very, very easily observed sign of adjustment is frequency response. Change the bass or tone on your amp, if it has such a control. Listen for a while. Maybe a few days. After a while you won't notice it (although because you'd have this statement in mind, you'd be testing yourself and you'll always know it's been changed).
Yes.

Back when I was a teenager and wasn't even aware there were people called "audiophiles" out there and wasn't aware of any equipment other than that offered by the mass market, I'd been in the habit since I was even much younger of listening to the stereo with the bass and treble controls cranked all the way up.

Then I encountered my first "audiophile" who advised keeping the tone controls out of the circuit.

I did as he suggested and it immediately sounded absolutely awful! Like someone had put mattresses over my speakers. Yecccch!

Instead of just cranking the bass and treble controls back up though, I kept them where they were, perhaps because I felt a bit of peer pressure and wanted to be like my "audiophile" friend, even though I thought it sounded like crap.

But over time, it began to sound better and better. Instead of sounding muffled and indistinct, it started sounding more natural, and I began to hear details in the music that I'd never heard before.

Eventually I came to like it very much and when I went and cranked the bass and treble controls back up like before, I thought my ears were going to start bleeding.

The brain is quite an interesting thing. It's great at pattern recognition, and particularly keen to changes in patterns. But when a new pattern emerges, the brain seems to behave differently to it initially than after the pattern has been repeated over time.

It still amazes me how many audiophiles go on and on about how great our ears are, but remain in seemingly complete denial of the fact that those marvelous ears of ours are plugged into that brain of ours and that all that we perceive is ultimately what goes on in that brain.

I also find it curious that break-in is such a recent phenomenon. Some claim night and day differences due to break-in, yet no one to speak of seems to have noticed it 20 years ago. This is sometimes explained by the much higher resolution gear we have today. Yet break-in is ubiquitous whether new gear, old gear, vintage gear, leading edge, bleeding edge, hi-fi, mid-fi, low-fi, etc.

se
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2004, 07:21 PM   #7
fcel is offline fcel  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: LA County
I totally agree with what was mentioned in the first post. I realized that too a while back. Consequently this is what I do when I want to find out the strong points and weak points of a new piece of audio equipment at home. For me, this will always be for speakers.

1) I will not listen to any serious music for two weeks, one week minimum. What I mean by serious? To me, it means listening at pretty loud level.
2) Then I pick my favourite music for listening/testing. Favourite to me means the music needs to have good bass. Example piano bass, kick drum bass, upright double bass or overall very involving music.
3) And finally after going without music for two weeks, I'll listen to the music that I described above.
4) I will listen to it for about 2 to 3 minutes. Then shut off the music.
5) Within these 3 minutes, you'll be able to determine the strong and weak points of the speakers and I'll write down what I heard. Per first post of this thread, after a while, one would "get used to it" and one can't make any meaningfull judgements.
6) After I have determined the weakness, I'll spend, say, the next 12 months tweaking (moving) the speakers to try to "improve" the sound.

Yes, it's a painfull process to go without music for days or weeks ...
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2004, 07:22 PM   #8
HDTVman is offline HDTVman  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Chicago area
In my experence new equipment does "burn in", but over a period of minutes to maybe a couple of hours. Then we adjust the bias or DC offset or what ever. After that any changes that take place come in these two different cases, both of which can be measured.

1. Normal drift during warm up from cold to normal operating temp.

2. Long term drift due to component aging.

I think any thing else is most likely caused by burn in between the ears of the listener as stated above. I count myself in here because I know it happens.

Later BZ
__________________
What ever makes the tunes flow
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2004, 10:58 PM   #9
diyAudio Senior Member
 
fdegrove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Belgium
Hi,

You guys, well most of you anyway, should put some Black Gate caps in your PSs for a change...

You'll know the meaning of the word "burn in", I tell ya.

Cheers,
__________________
Frank
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2004, 04:15 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Brian Donaldson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Texas, Love it or leave it
I'm not one to believe in audio voodoo BS, but speakers do need a little time for the suspensions to loosen up and my Alephs did (visible on the scope) change in the first 2 hours. ( I don't recall exactly what the change was. I think a ring in 1K square wave dissapeared. You can search for the thread about my amps about 10 months ago if you're interested) (A bit more difficult with this 10 post crap) Maybe the caps were forming or something.


But the picture in the fridge thing helps high frequecy definition...NOT
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thiele-Small Explained? marob Multi-Way 14 24th June 2013 05:14 PM
Darius Loftin White explained oldeurope Tubes / Valves 86 20th January 2009 07:34 AM
Bypassing & Coupling/Decoupling explained? KevinLee Digital Source 2 18th January 2004 05:25 PM
Zobels explained...... Jocko Homo Multi-Way 0 9th July 2002 03:27 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:29 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Đ1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2