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Old 12th June 2001, 05:35 PM   #1
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You guys have to see this. The pre-amp uses 2.9 farads, not mF. The amp, get this...uses 400,000 Farads!

http://gallery.consumerreview.com/au...s/arbpamp2.asp
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Old 12th June 2001, 06:25 PM   #2
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Talking Why?

That's sick, Man..

I think Audio Note made some 250.000UKŁ amps too.

How do you figure out the capacity in batteries? With 6x12V/80Ah in my amps they run for weeks without a recharge, not 15 hours like those *wimpy* DynAudios.
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Old 12th June 2001, 06:46 PM   #3
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I can almost understand that Audio Notes cost $250k, their transformers are hand-wound w/ silver wire and they take hundereds of man hours to make. I think A.N. makes their own resistors and caps too.

The batts only power the input and driver stage.

I'd like to know who actually buys this stuff! I'd like to see their house.

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Old 12th June 2001, 06:46 PM   #4
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Red face Hmm..

Just read the blurb..

It seems the bats are only for the pre on the driver stage of the poweramp. 15 hours is weeny... I REALLY doubt the power amps have 400.000F in the PSU. It's putting out more than 700W/8ohm and even if it's internally bridged, the rail voltage is quite high. Also the PSU part only weighs in at 30kgs including 2x1kVA transformers. Alone they should weigh in about 8-10kgs. So that leaves 'bout 10-12kgs to the caps. If rated at 100V/100.000yF that'll mean.. FOUR MILLION caps... harharharhar.. yeah right.

I think it's 400.000 MICRO Farads. Not Farads. Anyhoo, nothing special in that, either. I use 16x47.000yF/63V and I've seen a lot of other amps use more.

They say even for this amp, battery supply for the amps outputstage is beyond reasonable. I got 6 of those batteries for less than a thousand dollars (and they we're not surplus, they we're brand new).

Pathetic gear wanking that's what it is.

Also the measurements, which the reviewer seems to come in his pants over are plain too. 85dB channel seperation? Huh, how about making the pre dual mono and you'll get hundreds of dBs worth of seperation. Seems like DynAudio used all the money for a fancy enclosure instead..

How about buying some plain vanilla Pass X1000s and records for the rest of the money? Ohh.. I forgot *audiophiles* only buy weeny flimsy musicial infantile 500gr vinyls from AudioQuest/Tellarc etc. I guess when you bought all 220 records there nothing left to do than buy a DynAudio amp..

Rant over.

DIY RULEZ!!
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Old 12th June 2001, 06:49 PM   #5
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Talking Yeah!

If the AN sucks, you can always un-wind the trannies and sell the 200km silver wire.. hahaha..

Geezz..

I doubt DynAudio ever sells one. Actually, I do seem to have seen it, the DynAudio, at some danish hifi show years ago. It's certainly not new. Or they made another one..

Howcome when commercial manufactures wants to make the *ultimate amp/speaker/washingmachine* it always ends up less than ultimate in my eyes/ears? (The Audio Notes comes damn close though..)

It might sound like the end of the World, I dunno and don't care, but it's quite obvious they're into specs and construction. That really could have been made better. Bi-amping is one way (or do they expect people to buy 12 to power the Consequence DynAudios speakers??) battery supply all they way (which they reckon themselves to be the ultimate) dual mono/chassis too??



[Edited by solstice on 06-12-2001 at 02:07 PM]
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Old 12th June 2001, 10:02 PM   #6
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1) I haven't heard it, so I have no opinion on the sound.
2) Given its price, it's unlikely that I'll be buying the stuff.
Random philosophical musings:
Back in the 70's Grado came out with a Signature cartridge for something like a thousand dollars. People had heart attacks, right and left...until they heard it and understood that Joseph Grado had actually done something worthwhile. Then Koetsu came out with a cartridge for $1500. I remember hearing the Lapis Lazuli (at $3500, the most expensive cartridge of its day) on a system with SOTA turntable, CJ Premier Three & Premier One, and Infinity IRS speakers. Now, *that* was a decent-sounding system. At the time that system represented something like $40,000 worth of hardware. The Genesis Model 1.1s I heard a month or so ago go for $135,000 by themselves.
Clearly inflation is a factor, here. I haven't done a serious analysis, but I believe that inflation in the audio world is running well ahead of the general inflation of the economy overall.
Some of it is a pure capitalist what-the-market-will-bear type of thing. Some pretty mediocre California wines go for $75-100 a bottle. Personally, I'd think they were worth more like $20-30, but people pay the price, so they must think it's worth it. Note that as the economy slows this kind of overpricing will take care of itself. The purely inflationary sort will not, barring a deflationary spell. We'll have to wait and see about that.
Something that's always puzzled me is the difference between cars & stereos. Both are (almost) exclusively male hobbies. Both can cost serious bucks. Both are about pushing the limits of what can be done. Both are technologically oriented.
And yet...
Car guys will get in a magazine with pictures of the latest Ferrari/Porsche/Aston Martin/etc. and drool. They'll call their buddies and work themselves into a tumultuous uproar, dreaming about the unattainable car.
Audio includes a *significant* percentage of people who see high priced, unattainable gear and spend the next month running it down, saying it's overpriced (okay, perhaps it is--see above), doesn't perform (this they say without ever hearing it), looks weird...whatever.
Now, the numbers crowd will say something to the effect that the specs 'prove' that it doesn't sound good, and that they don't need to waste their time listening to it. They would, no doubt, say that that's the difference. But the super-cars don't necessarily look all that good on paper, either. Face it, you can hop up a Camaro to out-accelerate a Ferrari coming off the mark, but does that mean it's a better car than the Ferrari? No. And the car folks know it--so they drool when the new cars come out. Many stereo folks don't have that same balance of perspective as to where their hardware stands in the overall scheme of things.
Pity.

Grey
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Old 13th June 2001, 01:02 PM   #7
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Honestly, I think cars are easier to understand. They also invoke different emotions in people, yet, there is art to both industries. Both industries have made crap gear too. A car, no matter how fast or slow, even with different degrees of style, will get you from here to there. A great audio reproduction system will put you in a different dimension.
A person can say, well, a car can be futuristic or nostalgic too. But, it really can't take you to a moment in time like a good recording can do.

In any case, how real you want your experience to be usually depends on how much cash you want to put out. Sometimes, you'll find a treasure of a piece of audio gear for not too much cash...sometimes.

Vince
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Old 13th June 2001, 11:44 PM   #8
blmn is offline blmn  Brazil
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Well, 400.000F. Lets see the bridge rectifier, surge currents over the transformers and the mains necessary to feed this amp...

I've already seen very expensive amps and loudspeakers announced, but these guys are really crazy, or very "smart".
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Old 14th June 2001, 01:14 AM   #9
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Default What a crock of bull


When I first saw this thing, I laughed.

Oh, wow, a Penny and Giles pot. Thats true sophistication and amazement there. An incredible preamp like no other?.. not really.

85db channel seperation, a dream value? thats not a very good value.

An the amps? don't even get me started, don't you think they could of done better than that? sheesh..

I would say an honestly superior-looking design is the Madrigal Reference No. 32. Not this Arbitar stuff.
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Old 14th June 2001, 01:34 AM   #10
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Pending seeing one of these critters in the flesh, I'm going to assume that the capacitance numbers are either microfarads or entirely bogus. There's not room in those chassis for that much capacitance unless they're outboarding the cap bank via an umbilical. There are several manufacturers who have done something of that nature over the years. However, I still doubt it, as the cap enclosure would be rather large. Imagine 400,000 of those 1F car caps (ignoring for the moment that they're only good for 12-15V or whatever). It'd take a very large room indeed to contain that much.
And talk about inrush current...the circuit would clearly require a slow start circuit of some nature, as the cap bank would represent something akin to a dead short for a non-trivial period of time. Surely long enough to trip breakers. I'd think the slow start time constant would have to be on the order of minutes, rather than seconds.
And, yes, I agree that the author of the text portion seems overly impressed with the 85dB channel separation figure. Given the rather breathless tone of his writing, I'd think he'd have a seizure if he saw some of the really huge Krell or Levinson pieces, etc. The big Jadis amp would be cause for a 911 call, I'd think.

Grey
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