Banned
Joined 2002
DSP_Geek said:
But even when there are lots of Macs the script kiddies are going to have a lot more difficulty making stuff that is a problem.
In the internet server arena, UNIX dominates, yet vulnerability (as measured by a British security firm goes like this) Windows 70%, Linus 30%, BSD (would include OS X) close to 0% (they said 0, i'm covering my butt)
The whole "Mac doesn't get attacked because there aren't enuff of them" is specious. May have been true with OS 9, but now that Mac is UNIX it is -- UNIX is one of the juciest targets out there -- but it comes inherently with all the doors & windows locked, an intercom & viewport on the door, instead of a house with no walls like Windows
(do note that OS X is more vulnerable than OS 9 was, but Apple well knows that they need to maintain a virus free system so are working their butts off to keep is so)
dave
planet10 said:
Sorry Dave, but it certainly was the case with MacOS 9, no need for still denying that one now when MacOS 9 is declared dead. Surprisingly when on occasion security is discussed Mac fanatics identify with UNIX ( always in capitals to emphasise its superiority !! ) while on other occasions MacOS X is not entirely the same as UNIX ( for example when the graphical system is discussed ). MacOS X does not need this kind of advertising, it sells and will sell by itself. Quality does not need fanatism.
In the latest security tests I read in a serious magazine ( instead of the Mac propaganda sites where Apple is a religion ) MacOS X 10.3.8 came out best closely followed by XP Professional SP2. Agreed, Windows Professional SP1 was infected with a worm in a few hours when connected to broadband internet.
Please see things in the right angle. Windows was open in the days when MacOS 9 was around which was just as open itself. I dare to say that security was a non-issue on MacOS 9.xx ( don't start me on memory management !! ).
I know you are commercially involved with Apple one way or another but please try to stay objective. Over here they say that "one should never slap the hand that feeds you" but it does not hurt to eat out of another hand sometimes. Just for getting a different taste. You know as well as I do that if things would be the other way around ( maybe, just maybe ) we could be complaining about MacOS X now
jean-paul said:
You might be surprised then by how many users are still using OS 9...
And the capitalization of UNIX isn't for emphasis, it is justthe correct way to write it... the graphical supperiority has nothing to do with the UNIX kernal and all to do with the shell Apple has written to sit on top of it.
dave
Banned
Joined 2002
I'm working at M$ these days, and I'll tell ya, that the security emphasis that we heard all about two years ago is not just hype.
They have numbers to back it up; for example, the most recent version of windows, Server 2003, has had much, much fewer problems since it was released than Windows 2000. And most of the problems it has had were less severe.
XP also has had fewer problems than Win2K.
I run Win2K here at home, and with reasonable care, such as a software firewall (in my case, Zone Alarm Pro) and a good antivirus program (Grisoft AVG Pro) and my usual good habits, I haven't had a problem for more than a year.
I did have a slew of problems about 1.5 years ago, thinking I was secure because my system was behind a NAT firewall; however, I am no longer that naive.
Recently the supposedly more secure FireFox browser has had a slew of rushed patches to fix almost identical security holes to ones found in Internet Explorer perhaps a year earlier. M$ security emphasis has started to pay off, so the script kiddies are moving elsewhere and they will be finding fertile ground in FireFox.
I am working on testing IE right now, and I'll also tell you that M$ has a a huge army of really smart people doing incredible amounts of automated and manual testing of IE. I can't imagine open source software getting anywhere near that level of commitment.
It takes money to do this, and M$ is good at making money.
*********
Now, if you have some kid out there installing little widgets such as smilies on their computer because they think they are kewl, then there is going to be some spyware. The solution to this is just give them a computer with just normal user rights, so they can't install any software themselves. Don't let them have admin rights until they are old enough to understand what they are doing.
The Mac (and linux) people are only less troubled by such things because there is little money to be had getting spyware to work on the mac or on linux systems because even a 100% coversion rate wouldn't be as lucrative as 3% of all of the PCs.
I have a rule of thumb for these sorts of applications ... anything that is frivolous and FREE is almost always spyware.
They have numbers to back it up; for example, the most recent version of windows, Server 2003, has had much, much fewer problems since it was released than Windows 2000. And most of the problems it has had were less severe.
XP also has had fewer problems than Win2K.
I run Win2K here at home, and with reasonable care, such as a software firewall (in my case, Zone Alarm Pro) and a good antivirus program (Grisoft AVG Pro) and my usual good habits, I haven't had a problem for more than a year.
I did have a slew of problems about 1.5 years ago, thinking I was secure because my system was behind a NAT firewall; however, I am no longer that naive.
Recently the supposedly more secure FireFox browser has had a slew of rushed patches to fix almost identical security holes to ones found in Internet Explorer perhaps a year earlier. M$ security emphasis has started to pay off, so the script kiddies are moving elsewhere and they will be finding fertile ground in FireFox.
I am working on testing IE right now, and I'll also tell you that M$ has a a huge army of really smart people doing incredible amounts of automated and manual testing of IE. I can't imagine open source software getting anywhere near that level of commitment.
It takes money to do this, and M$ is good at making money.
*********
Now, if you have some kid out there installing little widgets such as smilies on their computer because they think they are kewl, then there is going to be some spyware. The solution to this is just give them a computer with just normal user rights, so they can't install any software themselves. Don't let them have admin rights until they are old enough to understand what they are doing.
The Mac (and linux) people are only less troubled by such things because there is little money to be had getting spyware to work on the mac or on linux systems because even a 100% coversion rate wouldn't be as lucrative as 3% of all of the PCs.
I have a rule of thumb for these sorts of applications ... anything that is frivolous and FREE is almost always spyware.
Im a dual g5 owner. I HEAR YOU BROTHER! I built up a GIANT PC for video editing/3D FX, it was watercooled, tripple monitor, dual power supply, raid 0, winxp/gentoo ...one bad MF'n machine. It goes and gets slow. I get a gig of ram...video card FRIES, i buy a FX5700..quadro mod.. it rules..for about 20 minutes. Raid drives go down, DEAD, next thing i know, its not booting. I fried it. CPUs chared black. but this is after a good 500$ in repairs. I had enough of BSOD's, and i realized, my G3 was 11 years old running all original parts. Bought my Dual G5, and ive never been happier.
We used an IBM APTIVA 133mhz for 8yrs online with dialup,never had one problem(perhaps just luck).
Had to upgrade in the end,hard disk had bad sectors-Now using a value 1.6ghz cheepe running Xp.
I chuckled to myself at that time while all the Xp users downloaded patches everyday and got worms and i chug along on win95.
Wordprocessing,MSN 2(who needs fancy fonts and faces) etc....
I would consider a mac if they werent so expensive,and currently I dont have problems with what I have(budget machine). I've no reason to change!
I know countless! people who use windows,downloading 'free' applications which are pointless,from smilies to IE add ons,all spyware spybot finds hundreds of trojans etc
Had to upgrade in the end,hard disk had bad sectors-Now using a value 1.6ghz cheepe running Xp.
I chuckled to myself at that time while all the Xp users downloaded patches everyday and got worms and i chug along on win95.
Wordprocessing,MSN 2(who needs fancy fonts and faces) etc....
I would consider a mac if they werent so expensive,and currently I dont have problems with what I have(budget machine). I've no reason to change!
I know countless! people who use windows,downloading 'free' applications which are pointless,from smilies to IE add ons,all spyware
spybot finds hundreds of trojans etc
I would think that your overclocking, water cooling and other extreme mods would have had something more to do with the instablility of your PC than the operating system or hardware.
I don't mind that you are happy on your dual G5 thang, but my next PC will be a dual-core Athlon-64, and it will also be very nice, and will have the advantages of being a PC that I and the majority of the world prefer. It won't be very expensive, either.
If I had the buxs, I'd gladly have an Apple beside my other machines, and there would probably be a few things about it that I would like better than my PC. However, I need the compatibility with all my applications and ever so many others that the PC brings more variety and options to me than a Mac.
There are no killer apps that run only on a mac any more. There are a few obscure programs for very specialized niches that may be better on a Mac; and since I don't use any of them, and since I have to choose, i choose a PC to have the best selection of affordable applications available to me.
I also develop ASP web pages, and that would be somewhat problematic on a mac.
The Mac people have been here trying to make windows pc's out as crash prone etc... etc. and it doesn't help you sound very convincing; as it completely contradicts my experience. Since Windows 2000 SP2, Windows has been very stable. XP was stable out of the box. Windows 2003 server gets very high marks for stablility and security.
You can always find a malware infested Win98 system with 32 megs of RAM to crash on demand (and bog slow to boot) as a mistaken comparison, but if you are going to be talking about your dually mac, you should be comparing this to a PC running windows XP Pro, and a AMD-64 dual-core chip. Comparing your top-drawer Mac to an old PC is not fair.
I don't mind that you are happy on your dual G5 thang, but my next PC will be a dual-core Athlon-64, and it will also be very nice, and will have the advantages of being a PC that I and the majority of the world prefer. It won't be very expensive, either.
If I had the buxs, I'd gladly have an Apple beside my other machines, and there would probably be a few things about it that I would like better than my PC. However, I need the compatibility with all my applications and ever so many others that the PC brings more variety and options to me than a Mac.
There are no killer apps that run only on a mac any more. There are a few obscure programs for very specialized niches that may be better on a Mac; and since I don't use any of them, and since I have to choose, i choose a PC to have the best selection of affordable applications available to me.
I also develop ASP web pages, and that would be somewhat problematic on a mac.
The Mac people have been here trying to make windows pc's out as crash prone etc... etc. and it doesn't help you sound very convincing; as it completely contradicts my experience. Since Windows 2000 SP2, Windows has been very stable. XP was stable out of the box. Windows 2003 server gets very high marks for stablility and security.
You can always find a malware infested Win98 system with 32 megs of RAM to crash on demand (and bog slow to boot) as a mistaken comparison, but if you are going to be talking about your dually mac, you should be comparing this to a PC running windows XP Pro, and a AMD-64 dual-core chip. Comparing your top-drawer Mac to an old PC is not fair.
Banned
Joined 2002
MadSkillzMan said:
G5's i wish i had money for one.. id buy a dulie 2.o and a 24" dell lcd..
Right now my main machine is my dell laptop running 2k with all service packs and stuff.. my new server that just went up in the last few days Mandrake 10.1 all updated behind a router.. I need a new one this is only a PII 400 @ 128mb ram and a 15gig hdd.. I'm debating on getting a g4 500mx box or a p4 2.0 gig linux / osx.. Humm...
geewhizbang, i actually wasnt OC'ed. It was a dual athlon 1.2, one of the earlier dual MPs, so the heat out put was immense. I had 11 fans to cool that sucker, and one day i just got sick of all the noise. Its not easy to sleep with a 10 hour magic bullet render in AE going ALL NIGHT!
Im more of a linux guy. If linux had the multimedia apps windows did, i wouldve just shut up and switched to that perminently. I lost it with my PC when it crashed and caused me a 3D SPFX job. Never again was i going to let that happen.
http://www.euronet.nl/users/frankvw/rants/microsoft/IhateMS_2.html
windows is crash prone, a part of that states, if you install windows on identical servers, some WILL CRASH for unknown reasons.
I went thru the problems of my machine on another forum (ocforums) we established that i just asked it to do so much between 3dsmax, combustion, adobe, so much multitasking..that after 3 years of it nonstop, the machine just gave up.
Longhorn, the new windows..has been scrapped and theyve started over. Pretty pathedic IMO. If M$ gets their way, your PC will need to be built my microsoft in order for you to function. But even worse, this new technology, will require ALL your files to be created on one of these longhorn PCs. If it isnt, the longhorn pc wont open it and vise versa. So pretty much bill gates will take the apple approach, only monopolize it some more.
That, and almost every other OS out there is *nix/BSD based. You can sit down at a computer running BeOS, IRIX, linux, mac, openBSD, figure out how to get the command line and your set. Not windows.
A mac was perfect for all the graphics work i do. And if it wears out within the next 3 years, well then i just lug it to my apple store and get it repaired. SAME DAY! their warranty service is quite incredible.
Geewhiz, what kinda mac do you have? I was tthinking of upgrading my old OC'ed Beige G3 to the 1.25 ghz g4 CPU.
Im more of a linux guy. If linux had the multimedia apps windows did, i wouldve just shut up and switched to that perminently. I lost it with my PC when it crashed and caused me a 3D SPFX job. Never again was i going to let that happen.
http://www.euronet.nl/users/frankvw/rants/microsoft/IhateMS_2.html
windows is crash prone, a part of that states, if you install windows on identical servers, some WILL CRASH for unknown reasons.
I went thru the problems of my machine on another forum (ocforums) we established that i just asked it to do so much between 3dsmax, combustion, adobe, so much multitasking..that after 3 years of it nonstop, the machine just gave up.
Longhorn, the new windows..has been scrapped and theyve started over. Pretty pathedic IMO. If M$ gets their way, your PC will need to be built my microsoft in order for you to function. But even worse, this new technology, will require ALL your files to be created on one of these longhorn PCs. If it isnt, the longhorn pc wont open it and vise versa. So pretty much bill gates will take the apple approach, only monopolize it some more.
That, and almost every other OS out there is *nix/BSD based. You can sit down at a computer running BeOS, IRIX, linux, mac, openBSD, figure out how to get the command line and your set. Not windows.
A mac was perfect for all the graphics work i do. And if it wears out within the next 3 years, well then i just lug it to my apple store and get it repaired. SAME DAY! their warranty service is quite incredible.
Geewhiz, what kinda mac do you have? I was tthinking of upgrading my old OC'ed Beige G3 to the 1.25 ghz g4 CPU.
Banned
Joined 2002
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