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Old 4th September 2004, 05:09 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by mikee12345
Perhaps if macs were cheap enough it consider trying one...but when price counts...
But comparing similar machines Macs are as cheap (and that is only considering the up front cost -- consider lifespan, maint & productivity and they get cheaper.

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Old 4th September 2004, 05:34 AM   #102
jleaman is offline jleaman  Belgium
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ok so buy a pc and install all of this software after about 3 horus of setting things up and configureing them then updating them then making sure they run.. your just about set.. oh and dont for get to install a few versions of antivirus software and spyware because You'l still get that..

Oh i seee open the mac turn it on then use it.. wow.. simple.


Oh and a g4 400 off ebay thre older towers still cheap .. and much better than amd / wintel. : O )
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Old 4th September 2004, 05:49 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by JasonL
g4 400
6 years old and still useful (and still have real cash value thereby)... will run the lastest OS just fine.... at that age most PCs are doorstops.

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Old 4th September 2004, 05:50 AM   #104
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Nobody running a PC is going to believe you that Macs are cheaper than PCs. It simply isn't true.

And if you want fast, there isn't anything Mac based that would even come close to an AMD opteron box with two processors.

I just looked it up:

AMD System
Dual AMD Opteron 242
2GB 266MHz DDR PC-2100 ECC/REG
240GB Seagate ATA100 8MB Cache (2 x 120 gig drives)
ATI Radeon 9500 128MB
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 6.
(includes the XP OS)
Cost $2500

Apple System:
Apple Power Mac G5 1.8GHz
Part #: M9031LL/A
1.8GHz PowerPC G5
900MHz frontside bus
512K L2 cache
512MB DDR400 128-bit SDRAM
Expandable to 8GB SDRAM
160GB Serial ATA
SuperDrive
Three PCI-X Slots
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
$2,399.00

The AMD system would just stomp the Apple speedwise as a SINGLE opteron of this speed rating is considerably faster than the fastest apple chip. (In actual throughput, not just clock speed. Apple's own benchmarks are pretty much lies, so much so that they can no longer advertise in the UK that Apples are faster than PCs, where some government board reviews advertisements for accuracy, and have several times required Apple to pull ads that were determined to be utterly misleading.

With two opterons, it is probably more than 2x as fast. (The opteron scales pretty well BTW, the second CPU adds about 80% more throughput, though that may not show up for most desktop apps, which are insufficiently multithreaded to keep two processors busy.

It has 4x as much RAM, more hard drive space, and better video. Both roughly the same price.

The AMD box, since it is faster to begin with will not be obsolescent any sooner than the slower Mac. So how is the Mac cheaper again?

Especially for DIY's who can upgrade the box themselves at very low costs. It is very likely that sometime next year you will be able to pop in Dual-core opterons into this box and have 4 total processors (that scale fairly well too).
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Old 4th September 2004, 05:58 AM   #105
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You can install Windows XP on a eight-year-old Pentium II box with 64 megs of ram and it WILL run most of time, as long as it isn't Dell / Compaq / HP proprietary junk.

You can do the equivalent thing with an old mac too, but why? A new $500 box is cheap and so much faster.

I have AVG installed on my system (the free version is fine, but I paid for my version just because I like the elegant simplicity of AVG compared to Norton AV, which is a PITB). I also have Adaware, and the Pro version of zone alarm. Since doing this I have not had any problems whatsoever.
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Old 4th September 2004, 05:59 AM   #106
jleaman is offline jleaman  Belgium
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Quote:
Originally posted by geewhizbang
Nobody running a PC is going to believe you that Macs are cheaper than PCs. It simply isn't true.

And if you want fast, there isn't anything Mac based that would even come close to an AMD opteron box with two processors.

I just looked it up:

AMD System
Dual AMD Opteron 242
2GB 266MHz DDR PC-2100 ECC/REG
240GB Seagate ATA100 8MB Cache (2 x 120 gig drives)
ATI Radeon 9500 128MB
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 6.
(includes the XP OS)
Cost $2500

Apple System:
Apple Power Mac G5 1.8GHz
Part #: M9031LL/A
1.8GHz PowerPC G5
900MHz frontside bus
512K L2 cache
512MB DDR400 128-bit SDRAM
Expandable to 8GB SDRAM
160GB Serial ATA
SuperDrive
Three PCI-X Slots
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
$2,399.00

The AMD system would just stomp the Apple speedwise as a SINGLE opteron of this speed rating is considerably faster than the fastest apple chip. (In actual throughput, not just clock speed. Apple's own benchmarks are pretty much lies, so much so that they can no longer advertise in the UK that Apples are faster than PCs, where some government board reviews advertisements for accuracy, and have several times required Apple to pull ads that were determined to be utterly misleading.

With two opterons, it is probably more than 2x as fast. (The opteron scales pretty well BTW, the second CPU adds about 80% more throughput, though that may not show up for most desktop apps, which are insufficiently multithreaded to keep two processors busy.

It has 4x as much RAM, more hard drive space, and better video. Both roughly the same price.

The AMD box, since it is faster to begin with will not be obsolescent any sooner than the slower Mac. So how is the Mac cheaper again?

Especially for DIY's who can upgrade the box themselves at very low costs. It is very likely that sometime next year you will be able to pop in Dual-core opterons into this box and have 4 total processors (that scale fairly well too).
yeah i can build a cheap pc too with all them cheap parts.. hard drives are cheap that ati card is like 90canadian the mac uses ddr 400mhz ram up to 8gigs
the apple g5's all use sata not ata100 SLOW old out dated and yu stil have to use a none 64bit os.. so really where are you going with this ? what is it ina apple any desktop model you cant change parts like wat cpu ram hdd video card what is it that cant be changed.. ?

if you didnt know pc has followed all these ports that mac had first.. it has taken them 2 years to use fw800 now.. oh and 3 years to use fw400 on board ect ect i really dont see how pc's are better.. id rather ahve a nice mac more money better product's IE hard ware inside than a cheap pourly put together pc....
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Old 4th September 2004, 06:02 AM   #107
jleaman is offline jleaman  Belgium
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Quote:
Originally posted by geewhizbang
You can install Windows XP on a eight-year-old Pentium II box with 64 megs of ram and it WILL run most of time, as long as it isn't Dell / Compaq / HP proprietary junk.

You can do the equivalent thing with an old mac too, but why? A new $500 box is cheap and so much faster.

I have AVG installed on my system (the free version is fine, but I paid for my version just because I like the elegant simplicity of AVG compared to Norton AV, which is a PITB). I also have Adaware, and the Pro version of zone alarm. Since doing this I have not had any problems whatsoever.

id love to see you run windows xp on a pII with 64mb ram do you know how slow that would be. ? IT IS PETHICALLY SLOW

and it would run on a compay dell hp and ect ect just fine..
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Old 4th September 2004, 06:06 AM   #108
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Location: Seattle
Most people get the PC from the vendor with the OS already setup.

If you know what you are doing you can have Windows XP installed in about 30 minutes, from a completely blank hard drive.

It does not take hours. Computer vendors can use tools such as Ghost to copy entire drive images to a hard drive and setup the computer in about five minutes.
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Old 4th September 2004, 06:08 AM   #109
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Running a current mac os on a old box is likely to be just as pathetically slow, so what is the big whiff there.
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Old 4th September 2004, 06:13 AM   #110
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I tested WIndows 2000 for about 1.5 years for M$. The boxes that gave the most problems were the proprietary ones. Compaqs are the worst with that horrid utterly non-standard invisible partition on the hard drive where they store bios settings (rather than putting them in Flash like everyone else). The least likely to offend boxes were utterly generic white boxes.

There are a few standout old boxes from recognizable name brands, such as Microns that are quite good. But most of the time if you recognize the name brand, the manufacturer has cut some corners to get the price down in ways that make the box somewhat incompatible when it comes time to make changes.
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