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Old 16th May 2004, 02:50 AM   #1
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I was cruising the "cables" thread at audioasylum today. It is VERBOTTEN to discuss DBT and ABX in the cable thread. I have learned that DBT means double blind testing.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting. Here the link...

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/dbt.html
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Old 16th May 2004, 03:00 AM   #2
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there are no needs for objective analysis in the metaphysical world of high end audio.

search under "snake oil" to see the comments on "The Absolute Sound" remaking the world of physics.

i swear, most of the pundits writing cable and equipment reviews never hear a live symphony or jazz session.
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Old 16th May 2004, 03:52 AM   #3
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I've looked at many other audio forums and have found all but this one to be glorifying rude sounding 70's Japaneese stuff, only concered with Home theater in a box crap, or mentally challanged believers in snake oil metaphysical cable tweaks. This seems to be the only forum whose members have some scientific and technical knowledge and don't fall prey to every bull$hit shiester voodoo salesman.

We do have a few Shamen raindance nutcakes here that claim huge bass improvements when they place slightly overcooked fettechini in a figure 8 on a chair in the room to the south of their listening room, but there are plenty of people around to smack them down.
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Old 16th May 2004, 04:11 PM   #4
grataku is offline grataku  United States
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What get you here are the part swappers and the gaincloners and their egregious claims. Their only equipment is their trained ears, their money reserve for parts is endless and the most expensive ones always make the sound better.
I found that pseudo techno-*** approach even more offensive.
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Old 16th May 2004, 04:34 PM   #5
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To comment grataku post, let me bring a quote from other thread:
Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel

It seems that whole high end is dominated by that type of attitude. Only certain approaches are considered to be valid and everything else is just not serious enough.
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Old 16th May 2004, 04:51 PM   #6
grataku is offline grataku  United States
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Peter, I am not sure in what hole your master key sentence would fit.
I played with parts in the past I thought they made a difference but it might have just been me, there is no way I could defend that view unless a DBT was done with identical pieces only differing by one part at a time.

I am going to NYC next friday, I will hear a whole bunch of differing sounding pieces of equipment, I look forward to that.
Is anyone else from the site coming in?
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Old 16th May 2004, 04:56 PM   #7
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Konnichiwa,

Quote:
Originally posted by chipco3434
I was cruising the "cables" thread at audioasylum today. It is VERBOTTEN to discuss DBT and ABX in the cable thread. I have learned that DBT means double blind testing.
The problem with ABX/DBT is that we are dealing with a statistical system. Statistics themselves are valid ONLY if we can remove ANY other compenent on the outcome (eg. the actual test setup - or blindtest your blindtest first, before blindtesting other effects).

Furthermore, statististics tend to become significant and hence useful in extrapolation only once the involved numbers are fairly large. This implies (and is statistically proovable) that DB Testing with small numbers of subjects and tries is simply not discriminating enough to allow reliable extrapolation (look at the Stereophile.com archives on a different angle on Stats and DBT/ABX).

Hence any small sample size DBT is irelevant.

Those who have chosen to "believe" (we want to believe, we want to believe) that no differences exist for example between cables will use anything in their favour as evidence. As DB Testing is in principle scientific some believe that simply citing any purported DB Test (regardless of the actual relevance of the result) provides absolute proof. Other will point out the flaws in the test (potential or actual) as they happen to believe differently. Still others will actually KNOW that cables CAN make an audible difference (and why/how) and may choose to contribute or not.

However, as mostly the whole subject is based on pure believe without any relaible evidence (conventionally also called religion) ration discussions rarely happen and any discussions seem to resemble the approach to discussions taken in the middle east.

So I can see the wisdom in simply banning such threads/replies as a measure to, by design, increase the Signal/Noise ratio in a discussion group or on a discussion board. Basically, if the children cannot play nicely together simply seggregate them, keeps the casualties limited..... We have seen what happens otherwise.

Sayonara
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Old 16th May 2004, 05:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by grataku
I am going to NYC next friday, I will hear a whole bunch of differing sounding pieces of equipment, I look forward to that.
Is anyone else from the site coming in?
You'll be able to audition my GCs there.
I won't be there, but my partner will.
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Old 16th May 2004, 05:35 PM   #9
grataku is offline grataku  United States
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Domo arigato Mr. Thorsoto,
your post above is a circular argument that gets nowhere.
The only part I agree about your post is the small sample size: it would be hard to find enough random people that cared enough about audio purity to do the test, besides audiophiles that is.
With your reasoning nobody would ever do any political polls, for example, it's just too hard to control the variables, nonsense.
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Old 16th May 2004, 05:39 PM   #10
grataku is offline grataku  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel


You'll be able to audition my GCs there.
I won't be there, but my partner will.

I look forward to that! Is the brand audiozone ?

Too bad you won't be there, I would have liked to meet you.
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