[tl;dr How do you decide which project will have the most impact on your sound quality?]
I'm almost totally new to the stereo game after 15 years without anything but earbuds. I built a pair of inexpensive speakers (First timer: select a low-budget bookshelf design?) and I've been enjoying them. Now I'm interested in another DIY or repair project and I'm trying to figure out where I can have the most impact on sound quality. How do people figure out where the weak links are in their systems? What would you improve next if you were me?
For sources, I use a Sony Discman D-E555 (line and digital out for $30!). I also use a Nook HD tablet to stream via the Emby web client from a file server on the Wireless LAN. The music on the server is a mix of MP3,, AAC, OGG, and a tiny bit of FLAC.
Both sources get plugged in (one at a time. can I use splitters on input devices?) to the AUX input of a 40 year old Nikko STA-2020 receiver. It needs some new panel lamps and some Deoxit for the the pots and switches, but it seems otherwise functional. It hasn't been re-capped.
The speakers are a pair of Planet10-designed mPluKen7 built from particle board with Mark Audio Pluvia 7 drivers (4-inch full range, 5.1L, vented). The sound is very exciting for DIY under $100, but I can't scientifically swear that they could win an ABX with the silver plastic monsters from some old all-in-one system (which are the only other speakers I own).
Finally, the listening room is currently my office which is about 12x14 and the speakers are on my desk right next to the receiver. If I can find a kid-safe spot on a shelf (the receiver is a bit too deep) I'd like to move it into the open kitchen/living room area which is much larger. For music, it's mostly acoustic, bluegrass, some classical, some rock.
Here's some projects I'm thinking about. What would you be doing to get better sound?
- replace the vintage receiver with a scratch-built ESP preamp and LM1875 power amp. I've got the parts all picked out, they'll run about $150 all told. I should be able to make the enclosures fit the shelves much better.
- re-cap the receiver. I haven't inventoried what's in there, but say $30-50?
- re-rip all the CDs I can to FLAC. Free but boring.
- figure out a cheap subwoofer project. The receiver has preamp outs, so I could cross over at line level and make a box and a class-D or chip amp. MiniDSP or FreeDSP looks kind of fun for the crossover. I'm worried that a big driver and its amp will strain the budget (under $150 hopefully).
- figure out a DAC project to make use of the toslink out on the Discman. I'm not sure what to use for an Emby client that could feed the same DAC. I probably don't have storage space for all my CDs though, so the server is still going to be important. I know that DAC prices can get sky-high, but I wonder if there's the equivalent of a chip amp that I could DIY.
- build a pair of larger floorstanding speakers for the living room. They'd need to be majorly childproofed, but it should be possible to get more sensitivity and lower frequency response.
- get a microphone and get into measuring so I could start having quantitative answers to questions like this.
Obviously, cost is a major issue for me, but I also don't have a good understanding of how to make these decisions. Googling just gets me lots of suggestions to buy fancy power cables!
Sorry for the long message, I hope that if you made it this far, you can share some of your thoughts and perspectives with. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
-Neil N0FN
I'm almost totally new to the stereo game after 15 years without anything but earbuds. I built a pair of inexpensive speakers (First timer: select a low-budget bookshelf design?) and I've been enjoying them. Now I'm interested in another DIY or repair project and I'm trying to figure out where I can have the most impact on sound quality. How do people figure out where the weak links are in their systems? What would you improve next if you were me?
For sources, I use a Sony Discman D-E555 (line and digital out for $30!). I also use a Nook HD tablet to stream via the Emby web client from a file server on the Wireless LAN. The music on the server is a mix of MP3,, AAC, OGG, and a tiny bit of FLAC.
Both sources get plugged in (one at a time. can I use splitters on input devices?) to the AUX input of a 40 year old Nikko STA-2020 receiver. It needs some new panel lamps and some Deoxit for the the pots and switches, but it seems otherwise functional. It hasn't been re-capped.
The speakers are a pair of Planet10-designed mPluKen7 built from particle board with Mark Audio Pluvia 7 drivers (4-inch full range, 5.1L, vented). The sound is very exciting for DIY under $100, but I can't scientifically swear that they could win an ABX with the silver plastic monsters from some old all-in-one system (which are the only other speakers I own).
Finally, the listening room is currently my office which is about 12x14 and the speakers are on my desk right next to the receiver. If I can find a kid-safe spot on a shelf (the receiver is a bit too deep) I'd like to move it into the open kitchen/living room area which is much larger. For music, it's mostly acoustic, bluegrass, some classical, some rock.
Here's some projects I'm thinking about. What would you be doing to get better sound?
- replace the vintage receiver with a scratch-built ESP preamp and LM1875 power amp. I've got the parts all picked out, they'll run about $150 all told. I should be able to make the enclosures fit the shelves much better.
- re-cap the receiver. I haven't inventoried what's in there, but say $30-50?
- re-rip all the CDs I can to FLAC. Free but boring.
- figure out a cheap subwoofer project. The receiver has preamp outs, so I could cross over at line level and make a box and a class-D or chip amp. MiniDSP or FreeDSP looks kind of fun for the crossover. I'm worried that a big driver and its amp will strain the budget (under $150 hopefully).
- figure out a DAC project to make use of the toslink out on the Discman. I'm not sure what to use for an Emby client that could feed the same DAC. I probably don't have storage space for all my CDs though, so the server is still going to be important. I know that DAC prices can get sky-high, but I wonder if there's the equivalent of a chip amp that I could DIY.
- build a pair of larger floorstanding speakers for the living room. They'd need to be majorly childproofed, but it should be possible to get more sensitivity and lower frequency response.
- get a microphone and get into measuring so I could start having quantitative answers to questions like this.
Obviously, cost is a major issue for me, but I also don't have a good understanding of how to make these decisions. Googling just gets me lots of suggestions to buy fancy power cables!
Sorry for the long message, I hope that if you made it this far, you can share some of your thoughts and perspectives with. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
-Neil N0FN
Analysis Paralysis...I go through it all the time. I came to DIY first for help trying to repair equipment. Didn’t have much luck, as I had no electronics understanding or familiarity with circuits. Then I decided the only way I would learn anything I needed was by finding some well documented projects and starting from scratch. The first project I completed was an LM3875 chip amp kit by Peter Daniels which was very well documented. It was easy and compact... (you need to pay close attention to grounding instructions)...the “bang for buck” was excellent and it would easily tuck into a small shelf. You will always wonder what is the “best” thing to do next...and everyone like yourself tends to end up with a list on here I think. I tend to jump around and work on more than one thing at a time. The secret I think is to stay within your means and just relax and enjoy what’s in front of you.
EDIT: Sorry if that seemed vague...since your talking about fixing and old amp and you’re concerned about space and having a place to set things up and enjoy them, I vote for building the chip amp.
EDIT: Sorry if that seemed vague...since your talking about fixing and old amp and you’re concerned about space and having a place to set things up and enjoy them, I vote for building the chip amp.
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Nope, that was extremely helpful. It encouraged me to address problems that I actually have rather than those I imagine I might have if I had heard someone else's better gear.
So, the problem that I actually have is not being able to fit my receiver on the living room shelves. That could be solved by building a smaller preamp/power amp, or probably by just moving some junk around.
Seriously, thanks for the advice to focus on what's in front of me.
-Neil N0FN
I bit the bullet and ordered $125 worth of parts for a preamplifier and an LM1875 power amplifier. Thank heavens for Mouser and Jameco. I wonder when I'll find out what I forgot?
Analysis paralysis officially over and wallet paralysis has begun.
Thanks again everyone for your suggestions.
-Neil N0FN
Analysis paralysis officially over and wallet paralysis has begun.
Thanks again everyone for your suggestions.
-Neil N0FN
Hi Neil, I am a frugal audiophile and can only suggest from what I have experienced the last 3 odd years since starting on this amazing audio diy path.
There are many debates about what is most important for SQ, but in the end every link in the chain is important, which is great - because it never ends and one finds satisfaction with every improvement.
From my own experience I agree with Mike here. Your speakers are fine and capable of amazing sound, so I think you are on the right track with improving the preamp and amp. Next I would recommend improving your source. Yes, FLAC files might make a difference, but I cannot emphasize more on how important the DAC is, since all your music comes from digital sources. Start with an affordable DAC . It does not have to break your bank, like this one: HiFime UAE23HD USB DAC (ES9018K2M+SA9023)
There are many debates about what is most important for SQ, but in the end every link in the chain is important, which is great - because it never ends and one finds satisfaction with every improvement.
From my own experience I agree with Mike here. Your speakers are fine and capable of amazing sound, so I think you are on the right track with improving the preamp and amp. Next I would recommend improving your source. Yes, FLAC files might make a difference, but I cannot emphasize more on how important the DAC is, since all your music comes from digital sources. Start with an affordable DAC . It does not have to break your bank, like this one: HiFime UAE23HD USB DAC (ES9018K2M+SA9023)
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Thank you for the suggestion to follow up with improvements to the DAC. I have seen those inexpensive USB DAC devices, but I don't see yet where I would use one. I don't have room for a whole computer by the stereo, so I don't have any USB device to plug it into.
Do I put a headless Raspberry Pi or NUC on the stereo shelf? It would have to access music from the file server over the network and I would want a way to use a phone or tablet to control what is playing. Could I use the same DAC with the optical out on my Discman?
I like the idea of a DAC under $100, but adding a $200 small form factor PC to serve up the bit stream changes the economics. Is there a Linux install on Raspberry Pi that can do the job?
Am I missing something about how these USB DACs are used?
-Neil N0FN
I remember seeing this thread floating around r.e. raspberry pi:
www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/257937-archphile-archlinux-based-audiophile-distribution-raspberry-pi-udoo-quad.html
www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/257937-archphile-archlinux-based-audiophile-distribution-raspberry-pi-udoo-quad.html
I am just saying that a decent DAC makes a HUGE difference upstream. But yes, a USB DAC will not work for your setup currently. You are currently stuck with the Sony Discman and the Nook’s internal DACs. Does not look like the Nook HD supports USB OTG (On The Go) and therefore the USB DAC won’t work with the Nook. An easy way to test this it to plug a USB mouse into the Nook – if the mouse works then the Nook supports OTG. The same test applies for a cell phone.
Maybe you need to think about your music source again. I ripped all my CDs to FLAC. But after I discovered music streaming I don’t listen to my old CDs anymore. I maybe have a handful of CDs that are keepers. I will never buy a CD again. So, I use my Android cell phone as sole music source currently – playing either FLAC files (using the jetAudio app) or streaming (from Google Music, or Deezer, or YouTube, etc.) on the phone via the USB DAC. The cell phone connects to the internet via wifi to a router in my case. Internet speed and data costs have made music streaming an affordable pleasure. Some streaming sites offer higher quality streaming too.
Yes, a Raspberry Pi headless music streamer is an excellent solution and on the cards, but until then streaming via my cell phone gives me access to a world of beautiful music I would otherwise not have known.
Maybe you need to think about your music source again. I ripped all my CDs to FLAC. But after I discovered music streaming I don’t listen to my old CDs anymore. I maybe have a handful of CDs that are keepers. I will never buy a CD again. So, I use my Android cell phone as sole music source currently – playing either FLAC files (using the jetAudio app) or streaming (from Google Music, or Deezer, or YouTube, etc.) on the phone via the USB DAC. The cell phone connects to the internet via wifi to a router in my case. Internet speed and data costs have made music streaming an affordable pleasure. Some streaming sites offer higher quality streaming too.
Yes, a Raspberry Pi headless music streamer is an excellent solution and on the cards, but until then streaming via my cell phone gives me access to a world of beautiful music I would otherwise not have known.
The Raspberry Pi headless music player with Logitech Media Server looks totally accessible actually. My file server runs Debian and I have installed the latest Logitech Media Server. I already have a Raspberry Pi Zero W. Adding a DAC hat to that will give me a headless player that I can control from any device in the house. I had resisted going this way initially because I didn't understand the whole point of Logitech Media Server (it seemed needlessly complex) but now I think I get it.
In fact, until the Pi and DAC arrive, it's possible to use an app on the Nook to playback with control from the tablet or even from my web browser. It really is a surprisingly powerful ecosystem.
I'm not terribly interested in paying for streaming music right now. Logitech Media Server has internet radio and podcasts I guess if I wanted. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
-Neil N0FN
In fact, until the Pi and DAC arrive, it's possible to use an app on the Nook to playback with control from the tablet or even from my web browser. It really is a surprisingly powerful ecosystem.
I'm not terribly interested in paying for streaming music right now. Logitech Media Server has internet radio and podcasts I guess if I wanted. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
-Neil N0FN
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