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Magura 6th April 2004 12:12 AM

Why do people listen to people from the industry??
I have started this thread to get rid of some of the snake oil. We, as DIY'ers should not have to resort to that kind of stuff, and should actually be able to get rid of a lot of it.

I simply cant understand why people keep on listening to people from the audio industry. 99% of the snake oil is generated by the industry and the magazines thats in the pocket of the industry as well.

If people are trying to sell you something ....wouldnt it be a natural reaction to be just a little critical about what they claim?


hifiZen 6th April 2004 12:34 AM

True enough.

I think a lot of people get into DIY after discovering that commercial products could not offer the sound they were seeking at an affordable price point. So for many, I think they are starting with a non-technical background, and the accumulated indoctrination of years of reading magazine reviews and psuedo-science advertising material. Having to un-learn all that takes time, and of course, some discussion with more experienced DIY-ers and Engineers etc... which is precisely where this forum comes in, and probably a major reason we keep seeing posts about snake-oil here. I think it's healthy.

Just my :2c:

Duo 6th April 2004 12:44 AM

Being only 17 I'm happy I haven't had time to learn all the magazine and industry stuff. I also have never made enough money to buy equipment that I want either.

Those two things are partly what led me to prove that I could "do it myself" for cheaper and make it better and how I want.

I produce my own power amplifiers and build accessories and speakers for myself. Like many DIY'ers, I have been able to build equipment that easily overcomes many consumer devices for far higher prices. Most of the judgement being what the ears tell me, and not the numbers. I trust my ears.

The main point I think that's helped me along the way, is that I am member of a ham radio club and I go around collecting old junk all the time. Some of the things I have collected out of garage sales and throw outs have been very nice. I often look for military and industrial surplus and stuff that's obsolete.

After years of collecting, one can also find better parts than money could afford in the right circumstances.

Anyway, not to deviate from the original meaning of this thread. I want to state that diy and true audio mean subjectivity, not manufacturer ratings and prices. I don't believe many magazines or ads, and in fact, I never have.

I'll certainly advocate the removal of snake-oil from the real world.

Peter Daniel 6th April 2004 12:49 AM

Re: Why do people listen to people from the industry??
Who else would they listen to, people who know nothing about the industry?

fdegrove 6th April 2004 12:54 AM



Who else would they listen to, people who know nothing about the industry?
I think that OTHER industry was meant.;)

Peter Daniel 6th April 2004 12:55 AM

You mean Snake Oil industry?;)

Magura 6th April 2004 12:59 AM

Its just hard when people like the danish "master of BS" Duelund seems to have quite a following.

The reason I actually got the idea to start this post is somebody from this forum whom I offered to help out with some copper rails for his power supply in an aleph (I have all kinds of copper at hand so it seemed natural to give the guy the offer), the reply was "yikes...its got plastic insulation" with a reference to Duelund.

I tried in vain to explain that Duelund is a buisnessman, and have to make you believe in his snake oil to get food on the table.

It is very interesting to see that the less hungry an audio manufacturer is, the less snake oil. I would like to point Nelson Pass out as an example. I have never heard him talk about snake oil in any way, rather the opposite as he frequently takes the steam out of a snake oil belief....but he obviously have earned the money he needed to earn allready :)


Magura 6th April 2004 01:03 AM

Whom people should listen to???

....I can easily come up with a list of people I find credible.

Nelson Pass
Frank De Grove

The list is longer....much longer.


mwmkravchenko 6th April 2004 01:13 AM

WHat people don't know they seek from others
I've been around long enough to skate around the edges of the industry for almost twenty years. I've consulted and almost went into production of a couple of designs. I have always found that people are gullable or given to believe something based on the way that they perceive it. "It must be true because I know nothing about it and it sounds so right" type of mentality. they don't know any better. Take the great green marker that makes CD's sound better story, or the magic disc that you place on top of your CD's in the player to stop the laser from shooting through the bottom CD. ( Not made up actually had people telling me this stuff ) It ain't necessarily so says I. I started out in this voyage like most of the members of the forum. Not enough money and an idea of what things should sound like. Heck I played french horn for six years, almost going pro with it. I know what instruments sound like and I wasn't hearing it from my stereo.

People listen to other people because they find it convenient. It can remove the need to do the leg work themselves. When I first started out in trying to build a good loudspeaker a man named Bill Wong helped me out a great deal. He answered my questions thoughtfully and thoroughly. That is up to a point where he found that there was a sufficient thirst for knowledge. He then told me good here is where you go to find the answers. "Here" in Ottawa, was the National Research Council Library. Spent many happy days there. Moral of the story?

Help people up the point that they may go out on their own. Hold their hand so to speak and when there is a good grounding in the fundamentals of what they are interested in push them off and see them ride on their own. No training wheels!


fdegrove 6th April 2004 01:19 AM



You mean Snake Oil industry?

Mind you, I'm sure in the eyes of some people we must be just as bad for listening to caps, resistors, wire and, god forbid, even skinning a cap or two...:bigeyes:

I.O.W. what's snake oil to you and me may just as well be entirely different from what others have in mind.

O.K., Magura, you can scrap me off that list now.:D

BTW, plastic can be removed from the copper rods, so what's that guys' problem?
Did he expect it to come wrapped in unbleached Egyptian cotton or something?


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