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Old 6th April 2004, 01:25 AM   #11
Magura is offline Magura  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove


BTW, plastic can be removed for the copper rods, so what's that guys' problem?
Did he expect it to come wrapped in unbleached Egyptian cotton or something?

Cheers,

Naah, if Im not mistaken he also dont like cotton, the Duelund snake oil theory prescribes unbleached silk, since you can get off the shelf cables that are wrapped in cotton

Well it saved me the trouble to be nice


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Old 6th April 2004, 01:35 AM   #12
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Default Re: Why do people listen to people from the industry??

Quote:
Originally posted by Magura
I have started this thread to get rid of some of the snake oil. We, as DIY'ers should not have to resort to that kind of stuff, and should actually be able to get rid of a lot of it.

I simply cant understand why people keep on listening to people from the audio industry. 99% of the snake oil is generated by the industry and the magazines thats in the pocket of the industry as well.
I wonder what is your actual experience in audio to come up with that sort of proposition?

You bring example of Nelson Pass, but even he recently surrendered to the concept of better sounding rectifiers for audio. Isn't it still regarded as snake oil by others?
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Old 6th April 2004, 01:44 AM   #13
Magura is offline Magura  Denmark
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Default Re: Re: Why do people listen to people from the industry??

Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel


I wonder what is your actual experience in audio to come up with that sort of proposition?

You bring example of Nelson Pass, but even he recently surrendered to the concept of better sounding rectifiers for audio. Isn't it still regarded as snake oil by some?

I have been playing around with very many setups of speakers, amps and lately ive spent a great deal of time on testing caps, FET's and cables as well.

The result of the wast majority of the tests have been no or little difference between utterly overpriced products and average reasonable quality products.

I havnt made any experiments with rectifiers yet, so i dont know if its snake oil, but I could hardly imagine it being, since the average client of passlabs have no idea about it anyway, so there is little reason besides better sound for NP to do so.

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Old 6th April 2004, 01:47 AM   #14
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And how would you define the average client of passlabs?
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Old 6th April 2004, 01:51 AM   #15
Magura is offline Magura  Denmark
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Definitely not a DIY'er. Hence the most likely little understanding of whats inside.

Most people havnt got a clue whats inside their stereos, even they have setups on the wrong side of 50,000USD


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Old 6th April 2004, 02:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magura
Definitely not a DIY'er. Hence the most likely little understanding of whats inside.

Most people havnt got a clue whats inside their stereos, even they have setups on the wrong side of 50,000USD
As much as you generalize about Pass customers (I know at least few forum members, who have original Pass equipment), you probably share similar approach to other issues in audio (snake oil stories, parts differences, pure listening satisfaction and so on). Nothing is black and white and there's lot to be learned. That's why it pays to listen to people from the industry

Whatever I was reading in all the magazines through the years, I came to experience in real life as well, when i became more serious about audio.
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Old 6th April 2004, 02:33 AM   #17
Magura is offline Magura  Denmark
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Actually the generalisation about Pass custumers could as well have been made about most people. I would expect it to be less than 1 out of 1000 who have any interest in why an amp sounds like it does. They buy a product and are happy with it.

I havnt got any reason to generalise about any branch of audio, so ill leave that as your assumption. One thing I though have learned about any industry is that if you want to know anything about whats facts and whats snake oil, dont ask the ones that makes money on it....according to them its all real and no snake oil involved.

To take this to another industry. I have been racing model cars for 15 years, for 10 of those years Ive made parts myself. Its a lot easier to bust the snake oil claims in that business, since you can if adequately experienced (wich most people are not) simply make stop watch tests and by the use of data loggers. If you guys only knew how much of it is snake oil....youd be shocked.

The manyfacturers have to make a new model at least every second year, and they have to come up with a reason why. Trust me, the snake oil stories are entertaining, for somebody who knows whats what and dont go waste a load of money on it. For the rest.....its a way to squeeze money out of them.

The claims are anything from newly invented super construction aluminium, to power enhancing battery cells (here I guess most people know that the only two factors that counts for a cell is the internal resistance and the voltage).

To end the model car story. The two fastest drivers in my area are myself and a good friend of mine. We are sporting the 2 cheapest cars on the track!!!

I would like to quote an old friend of mine: When people are stating the obvious, its most likely not true. He gave the soviet newspaper Pravda as example. Pravda means "the truth", wich is pretty much the only thing it wasnt.


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Old 6th April 2004, 02:37 AM   #18
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So to make this thread more approachable to some members, what would be your top picks for snake oil stories in audio (industry)?
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Old 6th April 2004, 02:45 AM   #19
Magura is offline Magura  Denmark
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Plastic becomming magnetic.

Loads of the speaker cable and interconnect claims. Take the interconnects from noordost. They are an exact match of a twisted pair of multistranded copper, just priced somewhat higher.

Those would be the two top snake oil picks....but there sure are more. Look at a site like audio note. They have been so far out that they have been posted as jokes here on the forum.


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Old 6th April 2004, 02:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magura
Whom people should listen to???

....I can easily come up with a list of people I find credible.

Nelson Pass
Frank De Grove
Grey
Fred

I will add Walt Jung (Analog) and Ron Mancini (Tex Instr)
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