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Benchmark Media blog post about distortion
Benchmark Media blog post about distortion
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Old 26th November 2017, 05:36 PM   #31
mmerrill99 is offline mmerrill99  United States
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Yes, the point I was making is that the idea that distortion which is below the threshold of audibility is necessarily inaudible relies on there being no 'anti-masking'. That is, a sound below the threshold of audibility cannot be rendered audible by the presence of some other sound. Naively one might expect this to be true (given that masking has the opposite effect), but who knows whether there is some sort of parametric amplification possible in the ear or brain with certain combinations of frequencies?


Thanks. I was not aware of that, but it makes sense. Just to clarify, this is a sound which would be audible if not masked, but it has been masked by a second sound, but is then rendered audible again by a third sound?
Research which directly answers your points
"the hearing of a complex tone is influenced by a higher harmonic component though the component is not audible."
From "Study on Perception of Complex Low Frequency Tones"

Quote:
6. CONCLUSIONS
The hearing thresholds and the perception frequencies of complex frequency tones
with higher harmonics in frequencies between 5Hz and 50Hz were measured. The
following conclusions were obtained.
(1) Hearing thresholds of the complex tone with harmonics decrease compared to
the hearing threshold of the pure tone, whose frequency is the same as the
fundamental.
(2) As the number of harmonics increases, the hearing thresholds of complex
tones decrease in many cases.
(3) A harmonic below the hearing threshold affects the hearing of a low
frequency complex tone.
(4) The hearing threshold of a low frequency complex tone is affected by the
phase difference between components

Last edited by mmerrill99; 26th November 2017 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 26th November 2017, 08:15 PM   #32
mmerrill99 is offline mmerrill99  United States
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
The point is that the 'many zeros' brigade may justify their quest for very low distortion on the grounds that distortion below the audible threshold is by definition inaudible, so their 'many zeros' equipment is audibly perfect. The existence of 'anti-masking' blows a hole in this. It could encourage them to seek for even more zeros.

On the other hand, most evidence is that few or no zeros are needed.
Some evidence that many zeroes are needed when differences at -110dB -120dB seem to be perceptible
AKSA's Lender Preamp with 40Vpp Output

Edit: As I said before one has to be careful about the received wisdom of audibility thresholds as are often used to dismiss differences in measurements

Last edited by mmerrill99; 26th November 2017 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 28th November 2017, 11:37 AM   #33
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmerrill99
Some evidence that many zeroes are needed when differences at -110dB -120dB seem to be perceptible
Actually that is more like -80db -90dB because the fundamental is around -20dB. Two zeros after the decimal point. Of course there is only anecdotal evidence of the change being audible. Interesting that the preferred version has higher distortion, but with 2nd dominating.
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Old 28th November 2017, 11:44 AM   #34
mmerrill99 is offline mmerrill99  United States
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Actually that is more like -80db -90dB because the fundamental is around -20dB. Two zeros after the decimal point. Of course there is only anecdotal evidence of the change being audible. Interesting that the preferred version has higher distortion, but with 2nd dominating.
Yes, you are correct - fundamental @ -20dB.
Yes, 2nd has doubled from 0.0021% to 0.0046% but 3rd has decreased from 0.0031% to 0.0009%

Sure, it's anecdotal - choose your poison!!
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