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Prototyping - listening in mono
Prototyping - listening in mono
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:34 AM   #11
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Prototyping - listening in mono
I think you two are in violent agreement.
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:39 AM   #12
Jakob2 is offline Jakob2  Germany
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Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
I think you two are in violent agreement.
Might be so (while questioning the "violent" part ) but imo it is a quite artificial distinction between "proxies for illusion" and "real spatial" information, as everything between the two loudspeakers (provided it is a two channel stereo setup) is still an illusion....
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:44 AM   #13
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Prototyping - listening in mono
It's a turn of phrase I use when two people are debating the same point but subtle wording stops them realising it .

I must admit to forever being suprised how much our brains can infer. I have a wonderful DG mono LP of a Tenor and piano and when listening you are convinced the singer is standing in front of the piano. I have no way of telling if he was, but it sounds that way

Not bad for a bone that was once part of our jaws
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Old 25th August 2017, 11:19 AM   #14
Jakob2 is offline Jakob2  Germany
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Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
It's a turn of phrase I use when two people are debating the same point but subtle wording stops them realising it .

I must admit to forever being suprised how much our brains can infer. I have a wonderful DG mono LP of a Tenor and piano and when listening you are convinced the singer is standing in front of the piano. I have no way of telling if he was, but it sounds that way

Not bad for a bone that was once part of our jaws
1.) I know
2.) Yeah, it´s interesting what our brain is doing to reach consistency between sensory input and remembered experience. I think i mentioned it earlier (when linking the old papers describing the first public demonstration of stereo) that already the inventors knew that a lot of this depends on listener´s experience with real acoustical events.

As scottjoplin pointed already out, a monoaural source nevertheless is able to tranport level differences (which is a clue for greater distance) and a difference between direct and reverberant/reflected sound (which makes usually the difference between a low level sound source nearby or a higher level sound source being farther away) but in any case as the loudspeaker does not move it is still an illusion....
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Old 25th August 2017, 11:40 AM   #15
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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Prototyping - listening in mono
I would always recommend using a digital source for evaluating an amp not vinyl - which is subject to vagaries of set-up and details for the turntable etc. - way too much going on there.
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Old 27th August 2017, 11:08 AM   #16
ErikdeBest is offline ErikdeBest  Switzerland
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Prototyping - listening in mono
many thanks for all replies.

I only have digital sources, and listening to mono is not my objective - the question was more: how to make the best out of a single chanel amp when used to stereo? `

I think I will do as Artosalo: make an arrangement to easily connect the amp under test with my main speakers.

wish you all a nice sunday, Erik
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Old 27th August 2017, 11:53 AM   #17
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Ah, I confused the difference between listening in mono and listening to mono, nevermind, answers to the unasked are interesting
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Old 15th September 2017, 10:19 AM   #18
midrange is offline midrange  United Kingdom
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Prototyping - listening in mono
Quote:
Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
Hate to be a pedant, but SPU stands for 'Stereo Pick Up'. Their mono cartridge predates the SPU (C25 series).
It is an oxymoron, but there really is a mono SPU. Yours for about £600

SPU Mono
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Old 15th September 2017, 10:34 AM   #19
analog_sa is offline analog_sa  Europe
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Prototyping - listening in mono
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikdeBest View Post

When building/developing/finetuning an amplifier, I generally work on a single channel - I think most people do so?

I don't. And i think it is a mistake, unless you are building an amp for a mono system. Subjectively a stereo amp is voiced very differently to a mono. A great example from the past is the Williamson amp, which at least imo sounds much better in mono.
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Old 15th September 2017, 12:50 PM   #20
Tubelab_com is offline Tubelab_com  United States
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I generally work on a single channel - I think most people do so?.....I don't. And i think it is a mistake
When developing a new idea into a working circuit, not just building a new take on a known design, I always build a single channel amp fed by known bench power supplies. Many of my "ideas" don't get past this point, so why make two failures and more unneeded power supplies?

This is usually done on a prototyping system of some sorts whether it's clip leads, a hacked up old PC board from a failed design, a piece of perf board, or in the old days, tube sockets and sky wired parts screwed to a piece of plywood. Any listening done is obviously mono through a set of "test" speakers.

I built a set of low budget speakers ($150 for the pair) that sound far better than their cost, and will eat a 125 WPC tube amp cranked to the edge of clipping for hours. Hard to blow, and each driver cost under $20 if I do blow one. Initial testing is with the tweeter turned off in case of oscillation.

Once that design is working it gets thoroughly bench tested and subjected to my usual torture testing, and once I'm satisfied, I will hook it up to my Yamaha NS-10M' Studio's in mono with the speakers in their usual location. I have owned these speakers for over 20 years and I know how certain CD's sound on them, and what to listen for. These are my "reference."

If I am still inspired by the design, I will make a stereo PC board with power supply and do some real testing, both analytical measurements and critical stereo listening with several sources on several speaker systems.

Quote:
Subjectively a stereo amp is voiced very differently to a mono.
Unless there is a need, I strive to make my amps as neutral as possible. Obviously certain tubes and OPT's will color the sound, and this may or may not warrant some attention. Purpose built amps do get tweaked for their intended purpose. Guitar amps are the obvious case, but subwoofer amps and amps that are part of a bi-amped or tri-amped system also need attention.
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