Designing with Semifake parts - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > General Interest > Everything Else
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Gallery Wiki Blogs Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Everything Else Anything related to audio / video / electronics etc) BUT remember- we have many new forums where your thread may now fit! .... Parts, Equipment & Tools, Construction Tips, Software Tools......

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th January 2017, 04:01 PM   #1
jfetter is offline jfetter  United States
diyAudio Member
 
jfetter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: North Houston
Default Designing with Semifake parts

I frequently muse about counterfeit electronic components. The entire concept is intriguing and seems like it is not really discussed very much. What is a counterfeit part anyway?

If a part is obviously a fake I'm more inclined to buy it for kicks.
Ebay and Alibaba are favorite hunting grounds for shameless fakes. I'm a descendent of Jean Lafitte as is most everyone from New Orleans. So piracy is in my blood.

But are not all semiconductors now 'fake'? I file away the certs from mouser, digikey etc but are the docs simply placebos?

If the part came from a contract foundry I would call it a Semifake. Derating specs on fakes and living with a few fails is ok. Electric motor distributors have been doing it for years. So the 5hp motor is openly sold as a 3hp, if one fails, ship the customer a same day replacement and give a free lunch. Everybody wins.

To my knowledge, here in Texas we do not have the ability to manufacture Semifakes.
I'm keeping an eye open for cheap foundry deals on Alibaba.

-bruce
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Rodrigue-from-windys-site.jpg (217.5 KB, 139 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2017, 09:11 AM   #2
maiko is offline maiko  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
maiko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Stella Polaris Vicinitas
Fakes, counterfeits and generics...

I asked under Pass forum for pictures on the obsolete Lovoltech LU1014D power JFET but the input was lukewarm, Pass chimed in and told he bought a bunch directly from Lovoltech which looked like the JFET seen on DeepSurplus web page, but the rest which can be found on eBay and AliExpress all have a slightly different look and welded legs.
Pictures of a >>GENUINE<< Lovoltech LU1014D Wanted!

We, the ones who live in West, don't seem to care too much a multi billion $ fake industry outside the West gets supported by our choice, and by extension exporting all our jobs, I as a dirt poor nobody don't know what to say about the greed from people who can afford genuine parts from reputable sources, apparently it's everyone for themselves, hunger game society, the faster eats the slow ones, the beginning of the 21st century looks interesting, pray Godspeed to us all.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2017, 04:37 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Tubelab_com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: West Virginia panhandle
Quote:
What is a counterfeit part anyway?
There are all sorts of counterfeit parts. I will try to avoid them at all (reasonable) costs. Why?

When there are $$$ to be made unscrupulous people will sell just about anything that looks close enough to be passed off as real. Often the "fake" parts pose a real safety hazard, and other times they may just cause the destruction of other good, and possibly expensive parts in your system. How?

Most everybody knows about the capacitors in the high end Dell computers. They were made by a reputable supplier who was sold some bogus electrolyte compound which caused all the capacitors to fail, often venting some of that bogus goo all over the motherboard.

There was a thread here a long time back about some exploding electrolytic caps. It seemed that a Chinese supplier had simply counterfeited the shrink wrap used on Panasonic high voltage electrolytics, and applied it on top of the existing wrapper on whatever cheap cap he could find regardless of value and voltage rating. In the case I read about the 500 volt wrapper was used on a 160 volt cap, and sold as 500 volt caps. They would short out and explode or blow up rectifier tubes and other parts.

There have been all sorts of fake transistors. Usually a cheap part gets washed and painted with the number and logo of a rare or expensive part. The cheap part usually can't stand the voltage that the good part was designed to be used in, and shorts out taking other silicon and maybe speakers with it.

You think you are buying a TI low noise voltage regulator, but you really get a garden variety 7805.

The IXYS 10M45 CCS chip I use in my amplifier designs isn't widely distributed in Europe, so people resort to EBAY. I don't know what the EBAY parts are, but they aren't 10M45's and will not work in the amp. Sometimes they fry a $15 tube.
__________________
Tubelab, it's 5 year mission. To explore strange new tubes, to seek out new circuits and topologies, to boldly go where no tube has gone before......
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2017, 07:45 PM   #4
jfetter is offline jfetter  United States
diyAudio Member
 
jfetter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: North Houston
yep lots of issues to consider when intentionally designing in fake parts.

I just like the challange of it.

Nothing unethical as long as sold as and assumed parts are fakes.

What about tubes?

What differentiates a currently manufactured tube from a fake ?

I just assume all current production are fakes.

Any thoughts on tubes?

-
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2017, 02:58 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Tubelab_com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: West Virginia panhandle
There are several current production tubes manufactured and sold as new tubes. They ere what they are, and some are pretty good.

An enterprising American business man has purchased the rights to several vintage brand names and uses those brands to market his high end Russian tubes for $$$$. The tubes are clearly marked made in Russia. Technically these are not "fakes" and most people understand what they are.

There is a growing market especially on Ebay to wash and relabel old east European or Russian tubes as rare and expensive German Telefunken tubes, these are fraudulently represented and can be called fakes.

There are also some rare US tubes like the 6386 that go for over $100. The common, cheap 5670 is identical except for the pitch of the grid wire winding, so there are "fake" 6386's out there that will not work in the old Fairchild audio compressors that use them.

I'm sure other "fake" tubes are out there, but I don't build anything with expensive tubes, so I haven't seen many. I did get some Russian 7189A tubes several years ago that were relabeled junk. They lived a short unhappy life in a guitar amp, and were replaced with some old used US made 6BQ5's that worked fine.
__________________
Tubelab, it's 5 year mission. To explore strange new tubes, to seek out new circuits and topologies, to boldly go where no tube has gone before......
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2017, 03:43 PM   #6
jfetter is offline jfetter  United States
diyAudio Member
 
jfetter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: North Houston
Thanks tubelab,
is really helpful - specific tube numbers and description of fakes.

fyi. i've been stocking up on JJ ecc82,83, jj6sn7, eh6v6 and eh6l6.
ratio of pre to power inventory about 70/30. i only use the power tubes for restoration. new designs are valve preamp with class-d power.

-
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2017, 09:00 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Andersonix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, California
Then you'll pee yourself in delight at this story:
Holiday feel-good story about fakes and China
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2017, 03:18 PM   #8
jfetter is offline jfetter  United States
diyAudio Member
 
jfetter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: North Houston
While in Chengdu Sichuan, I thought this was an Apple mall but alas it was a mall of apples.
260 of the Fortune 500 companies have established branches in Chengdu.

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Apple-Mall.jpg (457.4 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg Apple-display.jpg (427.3 KB, 39 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2017, 03:30 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire coast UK
A fake is something that is making out to be something that it is not. In the terms of our hobby this could mean that the fake component doesn't meet the specs of the original or it could be a full spec component that has a manufactures name on it but was not made by them.

I can't understand why anyone would want to knowingly buy either category.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2017, 06:35 PM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Andersonix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, California
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfetter View Post
While in Chengdu Sichuan, I thought this was an Apple mall but alas it was a mall of apples.
260 of the Fortune 500 companies have established branches in Chengdu.

.
My statistical analysis on the molded objects claimed to be "apples" concludes that there are actually only 4 sizes of apples, painted in 6 color patterns, and that the paintshop yield is over 98% completion. Would not buy! "Bu jau."
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: PCBs and parts, parts, parts... Kuka Swap Meet 35 4th February 2013 11:01 PM
FS Cleaning out my stock of parts: Manger, Seas, Audax, plus equipment and parts. SpeakerScott Swap Meet 12 1st February 2013 01:01 AM
FS: Pass Labs Parts Lot Caps, Toroids, Parts Eclipse911t Swap Meet 12 29th September 2010 02:25 AM
PARTS PARTS PARTS!!! Infocus Powerview 820, triplet, ballast, light, power supply!!! marioinla Swap Meet 1 31st August 2004 05:22 PM
Designing for guys who like designing Sch3mat1c Tubes / Valves 14 31st August 2003 12:46 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:56 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2017 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Wiki