Hello!
I am going to add an electrical stove in my kitchen near to my fridge, microwave, e-grill, toaster and coffee machine! At this time I have a 16A breaker on the feedline for it and a 1,5mm copper! What changes should I do? I have a place where it could be pluged in and never removed from there looking at it the way that the socket has never had anything else plugged in ever, no loose contacts so that heat would build up! Thank you!
I am going to add an electrical stove in my kitchen near to my fridge, microwave, e-grill, toaster and coffee machine! At this time I have a 16A breaker on the feedline for it and a 1,5mm copper! What changes should I do? I have a place where it could be pluged in and never removed from there looking at it the way that the socket has never had anything else plugged in ever, no loose contacts so that heat would build up! Thank you!
This should be ok. If you have several appliances on at the same time, you may want to use separate circuits to avoid tripping the breaker.
I am thinking to put a 20A breaker, I am at times having my fridge run auto turn-on,
microwave 1200w for about 3min and oven plus top spot of the oven for cooking, would that be too much?
Probably yes. Bear in mind that the breaker should trip before the wire is stressed. Try to use several separate circuits.
Um, here we have 240volt, and 1.5mm is only used for light circuits.
For normal power points its 2.5mm and above.
for high current items like ovens etc, its 4mm and above.
Running anything in the kitchen with 1.5mm cable is just begging to have the house burn down.
And double this for 110volt.
I won't even mention that you need to allow for the length of the cable from circuit breaker to the device.
Or where and how the cable is run (under insulation etc).
Thermal de-rating of cable.
Type of cable (copper clad steel, single core, multi core, etc)
To save you the heart break of a burnt out house or someones death, PLEASE, contact a licensed electrician in your country.
Old n Cranky is correct..
In the UK 1.5 lighting backed up with 6A breaker
2.5 ring main or 4mm radial. 32 amp breaker
Cooker is dependant on power rating..this effects the cable size based upon installation. (clipped to a wall or in between plaster board etc) this derates the cable capacity.
Check the regulations for your country. Normally the breaker is protecting the cable not the appliance.
NB its not unusual to see 6mm or larger and the length effects the size as well..
Regards
M. Gregg
In the UK 1.5 lighting backed up with 6A breaker
2.5 ring main or 4mm radial. 32 amp breaker
Cooker is dependant on power rating..this effects the cable size based upon installation. (clipped to a wall or in between plaster board etc) this derates the cable capacity.
Check the regulations for your country. Normally the breaker is protecting the cable not the appliance.
NB its not unusual to see 6mm or larger and the length effects the size as well..
Regards
M. Gregg
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Ok some sord solved it! On my apliances that do no more than 1300w per piece I have the copper wire 1,5mm, and a breaker of 16A! For the oven I thought a 20A breaker with 2,5mm copper wire that will run through a plastic put against the wall with a lead on top of it! This oven is class A++ so to be said, year of production now three years ago when the first piece was lauched! A 4,5mm wire shoul do only for the oven or once more, wouldn't it?
Its important to understand..
The cable size is not about just the current rating for the load.
Its about fault clearance times and protection..
I cannot advise for your country. In the UK its linked to BS7671 which has calculations to size cables for this kind of installation.
You shouldn't just take the max current and then size, its about the voltage drop and distance combined with the type of protection and speed of operation.
Regards
M. Gregg
The cable size is not about just the current rating for the load.
Its about fault clearance times and protection..
I cannot advise for your country. In the UK its linked to BS7671 which has calculations to size cables for this kind of installation.
You shouldn't just take the max current and then size, its about the voltage drop and distance combined with the type of protection and speed of operation.
Regards
M. Gregg
Also agree with M Gregg.
With one addition.
In the UK some places have 'ring' wiring.
In Australia, we dont.
So the UK can be relying on what is effectively two runs of cable per outlet (GPO).
Without knowing the details of your house, where and how the cable is run.
It is hard to make a reliable suggestion.
Here we run stove/oven on their own circuit (could be up to 32 amp depending on many factors).
They are the two big power hogs in any kitchen.
A toaster running on a 32 amp circuit could burn the house down or kill someone.
GPO's (power points) are only rated to 10 amps here. But at 240v, thats 2,400w.
This is why, We suggest getting in touch with a licensed electrician.
It may not be your life you save. It may be the child of the next door neighbor.
EDIT, Just looked at your location, which is Romania.
Romania is 230volt.
I could make an educated guess as to what cable and circuit breaker to use.
But I'm not going to.
Anyone using 1.5mm cable on a 16amp breaker, for their kitchen (or any room for that matter), Is just asking for trouble.
With one addition.
In the UK some places have 'ring' wiring.
In Australia, we dont.
So the UK can be relying on what is effectively two runs of cable per outlet (GPO).
Without knowing the details of your house, where and how the cable is run.
It is hard to make a reliable suggestion.
Here we run stove/oven on their own circuit (could be up to 32 amp depending on many factors).
They are the two big power hogs in any kitchen.
A toaster running on a 32 amp circuit could burn the house down or kill someone.
GPO's (power points) are only rated to 10 amps here. But at 240v, thats 2,400w.
This is why, We suggest getting in touch with a licensed electrician.
It may not be your life you save. It may be the child of the next door neighbor.
EDIT, Just looked at your location, which is Romania.
Romania is 230volt.
I could make an educated guess as to what cable and circuit breaker to use.
But I'm not going to.
Anyone using 1.5mm cable on a 16amp breaker, for their kitchen (or any room for that matter), Is just asking for trouble.
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Well here are the details: I will have to run a distance of 10,5m of the wires on the wall to the circuit breaker panel. In addition will be a cable of 1,5m for the stove, it's electrical cable! The wires will run through that white canal rectangular tube one part fixed on the wall and the other end, the lid put on top of it! What would be my buying list?
A licensed electrician.
Seriously.
I'm not trying to rude.
I'm trying to be helpfull.
I don't believe you have the experience or knowledge to do this safely.
I have both, but I don't have a license, so I will NOT make meter box connections.
The risks are just to high.
The breaker (MCB) must be rated LOWER than all of the cables after the breaker, unless they are protected by another suitable breaker.I am thinking to put a 20A breaker, I am at times having my fridge run auto turn-on
You need the 1.5sqmm cable current rating, then select an MCB that is less than that.
Now multiply that MCB rating by 220Vac to get your VA
The appliance should have a VA rating less than MCB*220.
If it's higher, then you need a bigger cable !!!!!!!
Romania may have an equivalent rule to the UK whereby the voltage drop from distribution board to appliance socket is limited to a maximum value. This usually only becomes a problem for long cable routes.
BTW,
this has become such a big safety issue that the UK has banned all amateur building wiring. We have to either submit and get approval of detailed electrical installation drawings, or employ a currently qualified electrician.
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if one has a 20A rated cable going from a 16A MCB in the distribution board to another area in the building, then one MUST NEVER reduce the cable rating to less than that MCB.
Except where on inserts a separate fuse/breaker to protect the lower rated cable.
That is standard practice.
We do it inside appliances,
We do it (in the UK) inside the plug top
We do it inside fused spurs.
We do it regularly and it is done by PROFESSIONALS regularly.
Except where on inserts a separate fuse/breaker to protect the lower rated cable.
That is standard practice.
We do it inside appliances,
We do it (in the UK) inside the plug top
We do it inside fused spurs.
We do it regularly and it is done by PROFESSIONALS regularly.
Electrical discrimination..
Eg
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.schneider-electric.com%2Fdocuments%2Ftechnical-publications%2Fen%2Fshared%2Felectrical-engineering%2Fdependability-availability-safety%2Flow-voltage-minus-1kv%2Fect201.pdf&ei=5sTYVNzLI6fZ7AbO6oDADQ&usg=AFQjCNEvs_6gmyx1Z51TWrgcZ7eWzbHB9w
Diversity..
Estimation of actual maximum kVA demand - Electrical Installation Guide
but lets not get into that cuse its a nightmare.
EEK its a ring main with 5mm cable...well its sort of until the ring main goes open circuit then its a 2.5mm radial ring main..
Well what about split boards..you know the ones with RCDs and stuff..or was that ELCB or er that was in revision 10025 wasn't it..Well its 4mm earth..er is that with mechanical damage limitation..eekk put 6mm in...LMAO
Say its with a diversity factor..but they can only use half the cooker at any one time..
Is that with part P..er that's for the VIR isn't it..
Regards
M. Gregg
Eg
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.schneider-electric.com%2Fdocuments%2Ftechnical-publications%2Fen%2Fshared%2Felectrical-engineering%2Fdependability-availability-safety%2Flow-voltage-minus-1kv%2Fect201.pdf&ei=5sTYVNzLI6fZ7AbO6oDADQ&usg=AFQjCNEvs_6gmyx1Z51TWrgcZ7eWzbHB9w
Diversity..
Estimation of actual maximum kVA demand - Electrical Installation Guide
but lets not get into that cuse its a nightmare.EEK its a ring main with 5mm cable...well its sort of until the ring main goes open circuit then its a 2.5mm radial ring main..
Well what about split boards..you know the ones with RCDs and stuff..or was that ELCB or er that was in revision 10025 wasn't it..Well its 4mm earth
..er is that with mechanical damage limitation..eekk put 6mm in...LMAOSay its with a diversity factor..but they can only use half the cooker at any one time..
Is that with part P..er that's for the VIR isn't it..
Regards
M. Gregg
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Here is a UK example in a nut shell..
Cooker cable sizing | Electricians Forums
The regulations in each country will probably be different..the thing to remember is the protective conductor..think earth wire which in the UK is smaller than the supply cable why (good question) Its in the grey stuff we use.
When a fault occurs you need enough current to flow to clear the protective device within the specified time in your countries regulations. This is so the possibility of the metalwork (think cooker case) becoming live for an extended period. Also that the protective device operates before it blows the earth cable open circuit.
It seems these days you only have to cough and a new revision of regulations is being bought in.
Regards
M. Gregg
Cooker cable sizing | Electricians Forums
The regulations in each country will probably be different..the thing to remember is the protective conductor..think earth wire which in the UK is smaller than the supply cable why (good question) Its in the grey stuff we use.
When a fault occurs you need enough current to flow to clear the protective device within the specified time in your countries regulations. This is so the possibility of the metalwork (think cooker case) becoming live for an extended period. Also that the protective device operates before it blows the earth cable open circuit.
It seems these days you only have to cough and a new revision of regulations is being bought in.
Regards
M. Gregg
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