Hello everyone,
I've recently picked up a small Happy Home branded fan, and I believe its from the 50's up to the 70's (I'm no fan expert). The fan's motor is nearly immaculate, no dirt, and (at least on the back of the motor) I can clearly see all of the windings and none of which are charred or damaged that I can see (however I've not checked the front of the motor, as its harder to remove the cover for that). I notice that I can barely operate the fan when using my variac and a 40Watt Light Bulb as the ballast, the bulb glows very brightly and drops the voltage too much. When plugged straight in to mains, it runs at a sensible speed and without oscillation turned on, it takes about 6 seconds to spin down. I can turn the blades pretty freely (again, I'm not an expert), however I see that after just 10 minutes straight on the mains, the housing of the motor is so hot that If I really grab the housing (to move the fan for example) I have a strong urge to let go.
Now for a few details, the fan has a sticker under the base that states it is 115V and 40Watts. My line voltage at my house is usually almost exactly 125V, so perhaps this was a hot running motor in the first place, and now its really unhappy about the extra 10v???
I've heard shaded pole motors get hot, and some, very hot, but I just want to see what everyone wants to say about this, as I'm not really sure about this issue myself. I'd say I think its either too hot or its a really hot running fan.
Any suggestions or comments are welcome, I'd really like to be able to use and restore this fan.
I've recently picked up a small Happy Home branded fan, and I believe its from the 50's up to the 70's (I'm no fan expert). The fan's motor is nearly immaculate, no dirt, and (at least on the back of the motor) I can clearly see all of the windings and none of which are charred or damaged that I can see (however I've not checked the front of the motor, as its harder to remove the cover for that). I notice that I can barely operate the fan when using my variac and a 40Watt Light Bulb as the ballast, the bulb glows very brightly and drops the voltage too much. When plugged straight in to mains, it runs at a sensible speed and without oscillation turned on, it takes about 6 seconds to spin down. I can turn the blades pretty freely (again, I'm not an expert), however I see that after just 10 minutes straight on the mains, the housing of the motor is so hot that If I really grab the housing (to move the fan for example) I have a strong urge to let go.
Now for a few details, the fan has a sticker under the base that states it is 115V and 40Watts. My line voltage at my house is usually almost exactly 125V, so perhaps this was a hot running motor in the first place, and now its really unhappy about the extra 10v???
I've heard shaded pole motors get hot, and some, very hot, but I just want to see what everyone wants to say about this, as I'm not really sure about this issue myself. I'd say I think its either too hot or its a really hot running fan.
Any suggestions or comments are welcome, I'd really like to be able to use and restore this fan.
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I'm not sure whether the bearings are dry or not, I assume the are fineas the fan seems to spin freely enough in my opinion.
This motor doesn't have brushes, wasn't thinking when I mentioned shaded pole motors previously.
As I said, I do have a variac, but I'm not sure that 10 volts would make such a difference.
Maybe tomorrow I'll measure the amperage it uses at 115 and 125 and see how big of a difference it makes.
This motor doesn't have brushes, wasn't thinking when I mentioned shaded pole motors previously.
As I said, I do have a variac, but I'm not sure that 10 volts would make such a difference.
Maybe tomorrow I'll measure the amperage it uses at 115 and 125 and see how big of a difference it makes.
I'm sure you know this also but you might want to inspect the power cord and replace it with a new one if you are going to be keeping this fan in operational condition. Saying for safety's sake.
Also you could simply get a proper fan speed controller:
Slowing Fans
Not sure how you would go about shedding those extra 10 volts aside from using a triac fan speed controller. Thankfuly they are rather cheap.
Also you could simply get a proper fan speed controller:
Slowing Fans
Not sure how you would go about shedding those extra 10 volts aside from using a triac fan speed controller. Thankfuly they are rather cheap.
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Yeah the power cord is still in very decent shape, except near the plug. It will be replaced sooner than later, but only if I'm sure that the motor is not damaged, as I dont want to waste money on a cord if the whole fan neeeds to be junked anyway (and yes it will cost some money as I want to do it really nice with an old style reproduction of some cotton covered 2 conductor with a reproduction bakealight plug).
As far as getting rid of the extra 10v, I was thinking that I could rip a nice big power transformer out of a junk stereo, they usually have a huge number of taps on the primary, and I could wire it as an autotransformer, as there is usually a tap for japan, I should be able to get 110v out of it, which is good enough for me.
My main priority at the moment is just to see if the motor is in perfect working condition or not, so I can see whether to continue the restoration or junk it.
I also have another question you might be able to answer, I see there was a small glass envelope strapped to the side of one of the field windings, and inside this glass envelope (which looked alot like an oversized neon bulb, but I know it is not) is what looks like a relay contact, but thats it, no coils or anything. Power goes into this glass device, and then comes out and goes to the field windings, I'd really like to know what this device is, I was thinking it might be some sort of thermal fuse but I cant really see how that would operate.
As far as getting rid of the extra 10v, I was thinking that I could rip a nice big power transformer out of a junk stereo, they usually have a huge number of taps on the primary, and I could wire it as an autotransformer, as there is usually a tap for japan, I should be able to get 110v out of it, which is good enough for me.
My main priority at the moment is just to see if the motor is in perfect working condition or not, so I can see whether to continue the restoration or junk it.
I also have another question you might be able to answer, I see there was a small glass envelope strapped to the side of one of the field windings, and inside this glass envelope (which looked alot like an oversized neon bulb, but I know it is not) is what looks like a relay contact, but thats it, no coils or anything. Power goes into this glass device, and then comes out and goes to the field windings, I'd really like to know what this device is, I was thinking it might be some sort of thermal fuse but I cant really see how that would operate.
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I suspect that that bulb is an automatically resetting thermal fuse OR if it contains mercury inside is a tip-over fuse which turns off the fan if it is tipped over. What happens in the case of the thermal fuse is if the motor draws too much current the metal bends due to the heat and moves away from the other contact, breaking the circuit. When it cools it reconnects the circuit and the fan starts to operate again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimetallic_strip
Without a picture of it I cannot be sure but from memory our vintage Sanyo fan has one too.
As for the Bakelite plug I would go over it with a bright light and check it for any cracks before using it again. I also clean the contact terminals with a little 1000 grit wet and dry to make it a bit shiney.
I'm a huge fan myself of vintage fans and lamps (I dont own any vintage fans but I do own one paticular floorstanding lamp which dates back to World War One.) I operate it on a solar power system running from 12 volts (yes I run moderate amounts of current at 12 volts over vintage lamp cord, it works! Just remember to fuse the end closest to the battery
The bulb is an LED type of only 10 watts)My main reasons for moving to 12 volts are:
#1 Save the planet.
#2 Prevent in all forms possible the electrocution of myself. (We have 240v mains here.)
#3 Prepare for blackouts. I'm an alternative lifestyler...
I also am the proud owner of a 12 volt fan from a hippie's van (I didn't steal it, I bartered it off him.). It is my pride and joy and I can run it all day during summer without ever having to pay the power bill!
And a 12 volt soldering iron..
And a 12 volt AC/DC 2-door Fridge, made by Beier.
Using 30 amp or 45 amp Anderson Power Poles (the red/black 30-45A variety with the red on right tounge on top/ham radio wiring method.)
It would be nice to get a vintage AC/DC fan actually, I might have to rewind the motor for it to run on 12 volts though.
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Also if you're going to be using the transformer out of an old stereo then at least make sure it will be enclosed inside of a metal box which is then earthed to the chassis of the fan or has an earth wire going to the earth terminal inside of the fan base or motor.
And make sure that any wires going outside of this box is double insulated wire. So at least 2 layers of insulation on it.
And usually motors make a loud hum or whine or creak or squeal sound if there is anything wrong with it.
If it's a shaded pole motor (no capacitors, no brushes), running hot is normal. These are not efficient motors. Also, since they run hot new, magnetic aging of the core is also accelerated, which causes increased loss, and accelerated core degradation. Eventually you get a motor that runs hot enough to blow out the bearings, and the fan is done. The glass bulb part could very easily be a thermal fuse, which would decide when it's time for permanent power-down (hopefully) if the operator failed to do so soon enough. Maybe good pictures would help, but it's already obvious you're dealing with an old, well used fan.
Wish I could remove that post now. Only just remembered that you use machine oil.
I agree with Freax, your glass bulb is probably a mercury switch used as a tipover turn-off switch.
Look like this?
Mercury switch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Look like this?
Mercury switch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yeah I'm a very safe person, I build tube amps so I've got that all down pat
It does make a bit of a noise, like a wobbling humming noise, but I suspect its just noise from the bearings, It doesn't sound like a stone cold 60hz "I'm blowing myself up" type of noise.
I'm not sure it is really old, possibly up to the 70's like I said. The main thing that I'm judging the era with is the plug that's on this cord, as well as the cord itself. It looks like normal modern lamp cord, 2 conductor, molded next to each other, and has one of those classic small (only big enough for the 2 pins itself) injection molded plugs molded right on the end.
I agree with Freax, your glass bulb is probably a mercury switch used as a tipover turn-off switch.
Look like this?
Mercury switch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No it's certainly not a mercury switch, it looks nothing like that and when put upside down, the fan continues to run.
Well all it tells me is that it is 40watts, its not old enough to have one of those awesome motor plates that tell you amperage and what not. I'll probably go measure how many amps.
Okay as far as measuring the amperage, there's a bit of an issue. Now I kid you not, my fluke 23 that I'd usually use for this stuff, was recently used to help with a septic tank pump replacement, and I've not gotten around to cleaning it up.
My only resort was a 15A panel meter I have lying around, and there is very small markings for .5a and 1a, and I don't think the needle even got there, but thats not much to go buy because they are such tiny markings anyways.
So all I know right now is this thing is definitely not pulling over 60Watts, if that.
My only resort was a 15A panel meter I have lying around, and there is very small markings for .5a and 1a, and I don't think the needle even got there, but thats not much to go buy because they are such tiny markings anyways.
So all I know right now is this thing is definitely not pulling over 60Watts, if that.
Can you please elaborate on how to get the bearings in tip top shape?
In the meantime, I'll man up and run it for a bit, if it blows up, then I lost $7.50, so whatever.
That would be a personal thing, because if you get nit-picky about it, oil impregnated bearings should be replaced, never "re-oiled", mainly because by the time you notice something wrong with them, they are truly shot. Foreign and worn off material gets lost in the pores of the bearing and there isn't any good way to actually get it all back out, not to mention clearance widens. However, in practice, the life of them can be at least doubled if they are cleaned and re-lubricated before they are ever allowed to load up and seize. I often use a solvent like 91% alcohol or lacquer thinner and cotton swabs to clean then up until nothing more comes off the bearing, and after they're completely dry of solvent, I'll add a tiny bit of oil. A lot of older fan motors used felt pad oil reservoirs. If you can get the assembly apart without destruction you can clean those out with solvent too, and reload them until maybe 50% saturated. If you wind up with a visible concave meniscus of oil between the bearing and shafts you've gone Way too far. Anyway, if they look pretty clean, you're probably better off doing nothing.
I reckon there would be quite a few hanging around on this forum - start a thread, they'll probably come running ...
I put some 3 in 1 motor oil in the bearings and the fan is about as smooth as I've ever seen any fan. I left it on for 2 hours straight last night to see if the oil fixed the hot motor issue, well no, it was hot enough that I really didn't want to touch it more than a second.
I also let it cool down, then ran it for a half an hour on 115v instead of 125v, and it still got just as hot, just as quick, on 115 as on 125.
So really I'm still not sure whether I should restore this fan, or toss it?
I also let it cool down, then ran it for a half an hour on 115v instead of 125v, and it still got just as hot, just as quick, on 115 as on 125.
So really I'm still not sure whether I should restore this fan, or toss it?
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