mrfeedback rattles windows - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > General Interest > Everything Else

Everything Else Anything related to audio / video / electronics etc) BUT remember- we have many new forums where your thread may now fit! .... Parts, Equipment & Tools, Construction Tips, Software Tools......

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30th December 2003, 03:17 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
mrfeedback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Perth, Australia.
Default Yes, This Experimental Outcome Is For Real........

Millwood, I do not understand your negative stance here.
I mentioned that I did a single 'easily reversible modification' to a complete audio system.

The outcome of eight experimental trials was that during four trials with the system temporarily modified, two particular windows rattled during exactly the same musical passages, and during four trials with the system in unmodified condition, no windows rattled during any part of the musical passages concerned.

The duration of this testing was around 25 minutes, no conditions internal to the house were changed, and the wind and the weather conditions outside did not change.

In my understanding the only difference accountable for the change in the audio output of the system sufficient to cause the windows to rattle was the one particular 'easily reversible modification' to the system.

Millwood, if you can, please explain to me how this 'easily reversible modification' showing 100% correlation with definitively observed aural artifacts should not be regarded as the causitive element.

Please also understand that this testing was held in the company of an extremely experienced and well regarded audio designer and long term audio manufacturer.

Eric.
__________________
I believe not to believe in any fixed belief system.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2003, 06:05 PM   #2
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: US
Default Re: Yes, This Experimental Outcome Is For Real........

Quote:
Originally posted by mrfeedback
Millwood, if you can, please explain to me how this 'easily reversible modification' showing 100% correlation with definitively observed aural artifacts should not be regarded as the causitive element.

Eric.

that's too easy, Eric: my buddy, his barber and I did this yesterday in our house. Our windows definitely didn't rattle. Also, my neighbor said it was impossible for the windows to rattle, leads in or not.

so you see, sensible people say that it couldn't have happen so whatever you heard must be wrong.

End of the proof, .

You see, Eric, you cannot have it both ways. Either you come here with rigorous tests, or you don't have the rights to demand what you are demanding.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2003, 12:43 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
mrfeedback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Perth, Australia.
Default I Have No Reason To Make Any Of This Up.

"so you see, sensible people say that it couldn't have happen so whatever you heard must be wrong.
End of the proof"

Millwood, little do you know.
This event may be out of your comprehension, but be assured that it is perfectly real.

Eric.
__________________
I believe not to believe in any fixed belief system.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2003, 01:20 AM   #4
diyAudio Senior Member
 
fdegrove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
This event may be out of your comprehension, but be assured that it is perfectly real.
I fail to see any difficult part in here...

Repeat the test a few times at different places and if the same results crop up you have some basis for a statistic result...

Cheers,
__________________
Frank
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2003, 01:24 AM   #5
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
What you have there is still an anecdote. Now, you might be perfectly happy with what you've done and feel that, in your mind, the issue is settled. And that's absolutely your right. But you don't have an actual experiment or actual data; you've left some major variables uncontrolled and it cannot be replicated or otherwise verified.

If you want to do an actual experiment, I'll be happy to give you a protocol that includes better control of variables. If you follow the protocol, you could even get it published in a reputable journal and make a nice name for yourself. But if you're not interested in doing the hard and tedious work involved in doing a proper experiment, I completely understand. Not many people like to go through the process. Building stuff and listening to music is a lot more fun.
__________________
And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2003, 01:40 AM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
mrfeedback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Perth, Australia.
Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove
Hi, I fail to see any difficult part in here...
Repeat the test a few times at different places and if the same results crop up you have some basis for a statistic result... Cheers,
Yes, that is actually done already, and with similar change in bass respose everytime.

Eric.
__________________
I believe not to believe in any fixed belief system.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2003, 01:47 AM   #7
diyAudio Senior Member
 
fdegrove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
What you have there is still an anecdote. Now, you might be perfectly happy with what you've done and feel that, in your mind, the issue is settled. And that's absolutely your right. But you don't have an actual experiment or actual data; you've left some major variables uncontrolled and it cannot be replicated or otherwise verified.
From a scientific POV? Certainly.

As I said before, never in my longstanding experience with audio have I been wrong in my aproach either, scientific or not ....
After so many years it almost becomes a science all of its own...

How does one prove scientifically that a Holco (NOS non-magnetic) resistor sounds mellow and dull?

Still to all and sundry it does...So is it or isn't it sounding dull?

Remember it's just a resistor and as such should have any other attributes.

I'm all for a scientific approach but the way I see it it's not science improving audio but listeners.

Sometimes you just need to think beyond commonly accepted knowledge to see what can happen...
I very much realise it's like walking on thin ice but so far I think we won already, like it or not.
The proof is in the history of audio over the past thirty years, scientific or not.

Cheers,
__________________
Frank
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2003, 01:52 AM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
mrfeedback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Perth, Australia.
Quote:
Originally posted by SY
What you have there is still an anecdote. Now, you might be perfectly happy with what you've done and feel that, in your mind, the issue is settled. And that's absolutely your right. But you don't have an actual experiment or actual data; you've left some major variables uncontrolled and it cannot be replicated or otherwise verified.

Sure, right now I am relating an anecdote, and that will have to do for now.
Which are the 'major' uncontrolled variables that you mention ?.

Quote:
If you want to do an actual experiment, I'll be happy to give you a protocol that includes better control of variables. If you follow the protocol, you could even get it published in a reputable journal and make a nice name for yourself. But if you're not interested in doing the hard and tedious work involved in doing a proper experiment, I completely understand. Not many people like to go through the process. Building stuff and listening to music is a lot more fun.
I fully intend to do full and verifiable testing in the near future, and yes probably publish it, and I don't consider this as work at all.
I intend in the next week or so to do some testing of several audio cables with real musical passages, and envision that I do sends and returns via a high quality outboard A/D-D/A convertor box and record to HD the returned passages.
I then intend to compare these files and then analyse the differences for spectral, amplitude and phase content.

Anybody have software that can do this ?.

Eric.
__________________
I believe not to believe in any fixed belief system.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2003, 02:00 AM   #9
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Which are the 'major' uncontrolled variables that you mention ?.
Here's a fatal one: the guy who makes the judgement "rattle" or "no rattle" knows what cord is in place and (presumably) has control of the volume knob and other system/room variables.


Quote:
How does one prove scientifically that a Holco (NOS non-magnetic) resistor sounds mellow and dull?
One way is a controlled listening test. A controlled listening test. A controlled listening test. Another is to do a controlled spectral analysis.
__________________
And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2003, 02:19 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: piedmont
what was that sound?

oh, it was the sound of a thread being jacked.

(not that it was a very useful thread to begin with)
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What the best way of stopping car rattles? MikeHunt79 Car Audio 8 14th February 2008 06:53 PM
HELP! parents+rattles= bad xstephanx Subwoofers 17 12th December 2004 08:39 PM
mrfeedback: a question plse Gabevee Digital Source 9 18th August 2003 06:31 PM
Mrfeedback, you are now one of the Enlightened roddyama Everything Else 11 5th November 2002 01:48 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:31 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2