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#1 |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blue ridge mountains
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Replies to questions regarding my system from tpenguin and sauuuuuce regarding post #155, Thread: System Pictures & Descriptions, Forum: Loudspeakers
tpenguin you are correct, those are a pair of Martin Logan's, Prodigies. Just got em a couple of weeks ago I'm still experimenting and tweaking. And I am not skilled in describing how a speaker sounds, so bare with me. In general the estats I've heard were open, airy, and very clean in their sound, and they produce a reasonably good ambience. My previous mains were Acoustats. The Prodigies are superior in almost every way, particularly in imaging and width of sweet spot. For small scale compositions the Prodigies have a quality of detail in their sound that is to die for. At present I'd have to say that the Accustats were better at reproducing big sounds. More on that another time. A guide to the speaker setup shown below. 1 & 2 Mains, . .ML Prodigies 3 & 4 Front Ambience-at ceiling, . .DIY MTM Focal HM170C0 mid/woofs TC90 Tdx tweets, soon to be . . ."reflexed." 5 & 6 R & L woofers . .DIY dipole woofers to be built this spring. Looks like 2x2 Tumults. 7 & 8 Mid Ambience-at ceiling . .DIY to use Peerless 5.25" HDS mid/woof and some tweeter or other. . .to be built this summer. 9 & 10 Surround . .Definitive Technology. BP30 MTM TLs (I pick 'em up tomorrow 11 & 12 Rear Surround . .Definitive Technology. BP30 MTM TLs (I pick 'em up tomorrow 13 & 14 Surround Subs, 13 for 9 & 11, 14 for 10 & 12 . .DIY Sealed, Alpine SWR-1541D 15 & 16 Rear Ambience-at ceiling . .Definitive Technology. BP2X MTM TLs (I pick 'em up tomorrow 17 & 18 Overhead Ambience front and rear firing . .DIY to use Peerless 5.25" HDS mid/woof and some tweeter or other. . .to be built this spring. 19 Effects channel sub. . .DIY 12" Peerless XLSs with matching PRs (cabinet divided into two acoustic . .spaces.)
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#2 |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blue ridge mountains
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OK, as a hardcore DIY type I'm a bit ashamed of all the boughten stuff. But in the past few years there was among my friends a spate of deaths, which focused my attention on the shortness of total available time. I took a short cut--so sue me
One of my goals for this system was to try all active XOs for the six primary channels. The MLs and the BP30s can and will be bi-amped. All mid tweet XOs 24 dB/8ve LR type, sub XO from the MLs will be 12 dB/8ve. Each of the MLs is powered by a R.F. 601S bi-amped The BP30 mid/woofs will each be powered by 1/2 of a R.F.401S The BP30 tweeters will be powered by amp channels in a Dennon AVR 884 The front ambience are powered by an Emerson PA2150 The rear ambience will be powered by 2 channels in the Dennon AVR 884 The front/rear surround subs are powered by two R.F. 301Ms The front surrounds use a second order XO designed by Madisound. These speakers were used for my mains while saving up for this system, save now buy later, you'll be glad you did. Oh and take that guy's advice about the sunscreen it IS important. Anyway I didn't like the results and put a pair of Behringer crud parametric EQs in line with them and got satisfactory results. Definitely was an improvement. I have a DBX Driverack PA that I am using on the MLs. So far the results are not as satisfactory as the passive XOs, but I haven't done enough tweaking yet to give up and get quantitative. I have a measurement mic and an outboard XLR input for my soundcard that has phantom power so all I need is some software and some time. I have a Behringer Ultracurve Pro but if I'm going to get quantitative I might as well go all the way. If the DBX turns out unsatisfactory I will probably look at building a Marchand XO and use the DBX on the front ambience. I have a pair of Behringer crud CX3400 SuperX Crossovers to use on the side and rear surrounds. Why the car amps? I must have a tin ear. I can easily hear differences among speakers, but nowadays differences among amps is so subtle I can hardly tell the difference, often can't at all. And it sure beats me how people hear the differences among power cables of the same gauge. So I allot my resources based on what I perceive as the order of aural importance. Speakers, preamp/processor, power amps, and way way down the list, cable--plain ole 12 and 10 gauge speaker cable from Lowes and PartsExpress works just fine for me. Car amps were the cheapest way I could go and the Rockford Fosgates sound just fine to me. Not that there aren't other good ones, but the R.Fs generally get good reviews. And hey I've got Martin Logans I have appearances to keep up My electronics background consists of working in audio in the 60s and my knowledge in that area has only deteriorated since then. So in order to figure out how much power I needed I just took the recommended fuse rating for each amp and added them up. I forget what it comes to but not including the unborn dipole woofers it's not too far off the 375 amps that my power supply can produce for 1 hour. I figure that should give me god's plenty of slack, or if not, at least deafen me before the batteries run down. If you are thinking about doing this it is not as simple as it sounds. You can't just use any batteries or any ole charger. You _must_ use a charger/power supply such as the IOTA IQ4. And if you don't use deep cycle batteries you'll be replacing them on a regular basis. And fuse everything as close to the batteries as you can. Its' only twelve volts but at that kind of current if you make a mistake you could get molten metal shot into your eye. Some thoughts on XOs It seems to me that the technology of XOs has reached a point where it is rather difficult to design one that well integrates the drivers and the drivers with the cabinet that is as good as what a manufacturer can do. Now surely it is not imposable, and given the caliber of people on this list I have no doubt that many of you do this with out much problem. But it would be quite difficult for me. Hence my interest in exploring active XOs above and beyond their touted superiority. More disordered thoughts related to my system to come. |
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#3 | |
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diyAudio Member
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im not gonna tell you to upgrade, im not gonna tell you you are wrong. all i am going to say is, you need to warn people, and give them a chance to sit down before you use language like that!
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#4 |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blue ridge mountains
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Now, now, I said "...what I perceive as the order of aural importance" That cant be scat, though my tin ear may be.
Ya know, by the time I'm done I'll have nearly 500' of cable in this. My money is finite and I have to ask myself how to get the most bang for my music bucks. For the money I save on this cable I could replace all those old freakin score reductions I have that my eyes can no longer deal with, not to mention that Roy Harris Symphony #3. Now there would be some serious pleasure. Not to mention my full size copy of the Beethoven's 4th. Man it's just tattered to pieces and fallin apart. Yeper, a couple of months snuggled up with those scores and my enjoyment of music would be permanently (well, for as long as I'm gonna last) enhanced. Yup, I talked me into it. Think I'll take those savings and head for Luck's Music Library. Ummm heaven. Better than doughnuts! Ya pays your money and takes your pick--do it wisely! eStatic
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#5 |
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diyAudio Member
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Wow, the only other time I've seen so many speakers in one room has been at best buy
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#6 | |||
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blue ridge mountains
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Quote:
The power system is actually rather simple. Charger/supply batteries and fuse blocks. But it aint cheap. Quote:
Indirectly that raises and interesting question. How good is good enough? Quote:
BTW Someone asked if I had a fan on these things and the answer is no. eStatic
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#7 |
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diyAudio Member
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I am with you on the cables. I think some people are full of it and trying to impress people sometimes. And I am sure the system does sound good with the Fosgate amps. Nice looking rig man.
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#8 | |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blue ridge mountains
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Hi Sauuuuuce!
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You know, there is a very wise old saying that one should never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence. I would like to introduce eStatic's audio corollary: Nastiness aside, never attribute to base motivation that which can be explained by honest passion. (But I'm still happy with the cheap stuff. Cheers eStatic
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#9 | |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blue ridge mountains
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Quote:
eStatic
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