I recently read an article in New Scientist about the sense of taste. It turns out there are a number of genes that give people a greater or lesser ability to distinguish different flavours and smells. So, much as you might wish to become a distinguished wine taster, if you don't have the right genes you won't be able to do it.
So, I wondered whether something similar applies to the 'Golden Ear' brigade. You can hear a lot more than the man in the street simply by training but is there an ultimate limit to what you can distinguish audibly that is defined by your genes?
Cheers
Ian
So, I wondered whether something similar applies to the 'Golden Ear' brigade. You can hear a lot more than the man in the street simply by training but is there an ultimate limit to what you can distinguish audibly that is defined by your genes?
Cheers
Ian
Well,
Here is a thought. Can women hear better than men?
Ie can a woman hear a child cry at a distance.
Can people that play an instrument be different?
Ie some guitarists I know are VERY touchy about their guitars strings (They sound different) I thought an "E" was just an "E".
But we are just kidding ourselves surly a 10 "E" string must be the same as an 8 right..
they just make them to fool us!
How can an E note be different through transformers it wouldn't be an E would it?
And a High E couldn't be distorted more than a low E could it through the same transformer.
The person that can tell a plank of wood from a violin etc.
Perhaps the ability lies in the ability to retain mental images or sounds for longer duration. ie compare one to another.
Regards
M. Gregg
Here is a thought. Can women hear better than men?
Ie can a woman hear a child cry at a distance.
Can people that play an instrument be different?
Ie some guitarists I know are VERY touchy about their guitars strings (They sound different) I thought an "E" was just an "E".
But we are just kidding ourselves surly a 10 "E" string must be the same as an 8 right..
they just make them to fool us!How can an E note be different through transformers it wouldn't be an E would it?
And a High E couldn't be distorted more than a low E could it through the same transformer.
The person that can tell a plank of wood from a violin etc.
Perhaps the ability lies in the ability to retain mental images or sounds for longer duration. ie compare one to another.
Regards
M. Gregg
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I think there is a bit to be said for training the ears. I don't think that you can train bad ears to be good, but you can definitely train good ears to be bad. Some people choose to be tone deaf. The argument that my Hi-Fi is better just doesn't wash because they don't want to hear any difference.
It took a while for me to tune a guitar by ear. comparing the notes on the scale.
Now I can tell if its to high or low.
That was just training.
But it doesn't make you/me an expert.
Its interesting that even without training you know when a guitar is out of tune. The difference is with training you know why.
Regards
M. Gregg
Ie some guitarists I know are VERY touchy about their guitars strings (They sound different) I thought an "E" was just an "E".
But we are just kidding ourselves surly a 10 "E" string must be the same as an 8 right..
Why would anyone expect that? Basic physics tells you that the loudness and overtone structure will be different, and it's easy to feel the difference when playing, which is yet another variable.
Agreed,
So is it sensitivity to the overtones?
some people more than others?
A bit like if you smoke and quit, people that quit find it more offensive than perhaps others.
You become sensitised to something.
Is it a blessing or a curse..probably a curse. Like when some people can hear the line time base on a CRT Tv and can't use it!
Or the whistle on an inverter PSU. When others in the room think they are making it up.
The GPO had hand held dog chasers using HF, some people can hear it others can't.
Regards
M. Gregg
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We all have the genes. It is just a matter of whether the genes are turned on or not(see epigenetics).
When someone becomes blind, they do not suddenly get new genes.
They do usually gain better hearing.
Why, because the genes necessary get turned on.
Beyond that, there is also training.
As you hear a sound over and over your mind gets adjusted to the sound and notices more.
I teach people to have "perfect pitch"
It can be taught.
When someone becomes blind, they do not suddenly get new genes.
They do usually gain better hearing.
Why, because the genes necessary get turned on.
Beyond that, there is also training.
As you hear a sound over and over your mind gets adjusted to the sound and notices more.
I teach people to have "perfect pitch"
It can be taught.
I remember getting the then UK standard hearing test in school, a not so nice woman with a very nice Stax rig told me that I had exceptional hearing and that I should aim to become a musician.
Sadly however my inherent laziness did not show up on her tests, I gave up on the piano, cornet and finally the guitar over the next 30 or so years.
Never gave up on the hifi though
Sadly however my inherent laziness did not show up on her tests, I gave up on the piano, cornet and finally the guitar over the next 30 or so years.
Never gave up on the hifi though
I think Hearing is more to what our brain want to hear than ears can actually hear.
For example while sleeping we hear almost nothing.
I far east people train themselves fight blindfolded,martial arts.
In similar context,
If we remain in a sound proof room for hours and expose ourselves to outer world quickly,it sounds chaotic at first. similarly if we hear loud music for a while and get into a quite cubicle it feels heaven.
Apparently we have ability to select or reject particular note or sound as well.
I always feel stressed when CRT televisions are turned on.
For example while sleeping we hear almost nothing.
I far east people train themselves fight blindfolded,martial arts.
In similar context,
If we remain in a sound proof room for hours and expose ourselves to outer world quickly,it sounds chaotic at first. similarly if we hear loud music for a while and get into a quite cubicle it feels heaven.
Apparently we have ability to select or reject particular note or sound as well.
I always feel stressed when CRT televisions are turned on.
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I'm afraid that may not be the reality
and I hate to say it, but you might even find many musicians who are happily playing instruments that are not tuned very well
gosh ... when I think of the old days before anyone had the modern tuners ... noone knew how a clean A sounded, and they didn't even care
modern tuners are a blessing
btw ... how about the sense of rythm ? ... I suppose it's closely connected to our hearing ?
On a similar note, I just saw a late nite TV interview with this books author. Things like why one small tribe can run long distances or why descendents from an area in West Africa that was exposed to Malaria can sprint but are poor at distance running.
The Sports Gene: Inside the Science of Extraordinary Athletic Performance by David Epstein (Aug 1, 2013)
The Sports Gene: Inside the Science of Extraordinary Athletic Performance by David Epstein (Aug 1, 2013)
'We all have the genes. It is just a matter of whether the genes are turned on or not'
I will agree with this. I can smell stale food which nobody around me smells. I have experienced this on many occasions. Most people distribute a sweet called 'pedha' here on their success or any good news. I first smell it and wouldn't dare to eat for the presense of fungi when all others will happily enjoy it.
Gajanan Phadte
I will agree with this. I can smell stale food which nobody around me smells. I have experienced this on many occasions. Most people distribute a sweet called 'pedha' here on their success or any good news. I first smell it and wouldn't dare to eat for the presense of fungi when all others will happily enjoy it.
Gajanan Phadte
We do not all have the same genes.
There are many alleles, genes or groups of genes which do similar but slightly different things.
The ACE gene for example comes generally in two versions.
One version gives the carrier the ability to put on muscle mass quickly, mostly fast twitching fibres. In terms of sport these people make good sprinters.
The other version does not allow fast muscle growth and the muscles tend to have more slow twitching fibres. Carriers do better at endurance sports.
This gene also affects the carriers decision making process with carriers of the former version being more decisive and quicker about it while the latter tend to procrastinate a bit more.
Thirdly it also affects the carriers longevity with the carriers of the second version living on average 10-15 years longer than carriers of the first.
The number of copies of a gene also can vary between individuals.
Some genes can be disadvantageous if too few copies are present but equally bad if there are too many copies but with vastly different symptoms.
Furthermore research has shown that if one is blind from birth the audio processing takes over parts of the visual cortex. These people can 'hear' substantially better than seeing people. However if someone goes blind later on in life ie sometime after birth they will not be able to train their hearing to be any better than non-visually impaired folks could.
PS: This is just to give a gist of how things are/work, in reality it is lot more complex and we are yet only scratching the surface of this line of research.
The real mystery begins when switched on genes produce proteins plus how and why these proteins are folded. For example: The protein which causes Mad Cow Disease is normally perfectly harmless, only when it is folded in a particular way does it become deadly.
There are many alleles, genes or groups of genes which do similar but slightly different things.
The ACE gene for example comes generally in two versions.
One version gives the carrier the ability to put on muscle mass quickly, mostly fast twitching fibres. In terms of sport these people make good sprinters.
The other version does not allow fast muscle growth and the muscles tend to have more slow twitching fibres. Carriers do better at endurance sports.
This gene also affects the carriers decision making process with carriers of the former version being more decisive and quicker about it while the latter tend to procrastinate a bit more.
Thirdly it also affects the carriers longevity with the carriers of the second version living on average 10-15 years longer than carriers of the first.
The number of copies of a gene also can vary between individuals.
Some genes can be disadvantageous if too few copies are present but equally bad if there are too many copies but with vastly different symptoms.
Furthermore research has shown that if one is blind from birth the audio processing takes over parts of the visual cortex. These people can 'hear' substantially better than seeing people. However if someone goes blind later on in life ie sometime after birth they will not be able to train their hearing to be any better than non-visually impaired folks could.
PS: This is just to give a gist of how things are/work, in reality it is lot more complex and we are yet only scratching the surface of this line of research.
The real mystery begins when switched on genes produce proteins plus how and why these proteins are folded. For example: The protein which causes Mad Cow Disease is normally perfectly harmless, only when it is folded in a particular way does it become deadly.
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