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Old 19th February 2002, 04:15 AM   #1
ucla88 is offline ucla88  Tahiti
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: rocklin, CA
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i'm very disheartened to see this occur.

i would actually like the official forum moderator's response.

it is exceedingly unfortunate that there is so little apparent flexibility in the policy that it has succeded in chasing away the kind of member who could be truely helpful at this site.

is mr. king asking too much? i don't think so and a bit of deference to keep him isn't an unreasonable request.
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Old 19th February 2002, 05:20 AM   #2
griff is offline griff  Australia
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the most disheartening thing about this whole occurance is the reactions of those attacking the moderator of this site who puts endless hours into this site FOR YOU, and this is the thanks he gets! This site earns $0, costs you as a consumer $0 and above all is an excellent site. I know that personally i would have no projects complete without this site, and that is enough to keep me and i would have thought everyone here happy. Having some knowledge of the moderator, i know that he is currently extremely busy with work and other personal matters, and it is terrible to think that you would or anyone would get upset over a little thing such as the little names we get through our input into the site.

I may have gone a little over the top here but i thought it was necessary to point some things out, dont take it personally anyone, just think about it.
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Old 19th February 2002, 05:36 AM   #3
paulb is offline paulb  Canada
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I think MJK has overreacted. Jason has stated a few times that we'll have to put up with his antics. I'm willing to live with that to reap the rewards of this site. Not that it's a huge burden.

I wanted to stay a prophet, but...oh well.
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Old 19th February 2002, 07:50 AM   #4
Chucko is offline Chucko
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Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA
Red face Oh come on!

I agree that MJK (whoever he is, being a true neophyte myself I have no idea) is overreacting to a bit of automatically generated HTML.

I'd say more, but as Mother always told me: "If you can't say anything nice..."
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Old 19th February 2002, 11:16 AM   #5
Bakmeel is offline Bakmeel  Netherlands
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The use of user-ratings isn't that weird though, it's actually standard in all fora I know. But this forum is the only I know that uses labels. Most fora use things like stars, dots, etc. The more posts, the more stars. I don't object the use of labels, but they do tend to miss their meaning. I don't blame MJK for taking offense by this. What's the dutch translation for "Neophyte" anyway??

More Power Igor! More Power!
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Old 19th February 2002, 12:25 PM   #6
tschrama is offline tschrama  Netherlands
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I just don't understand how somebody can react the way MJK did... Hello??? How old are you?? This is THE most importend website for audio DIY's and is a great help for my hobby.. it is the WWW at it's best!!

My advice... use a healthy sence of humor and your DIY life will be even better....

PS.. What am I .. already a prophet?.. hmmm better start learning the difference between FET's an and BJT's....
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Old 19th February 2002, 02:17 PM   #7
dice45 is offline dice45  Germany
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Hello ucla88, Jason and all,

Neophyte dice45 is writing here, i doubt i am member of this forum for more than 4 weeks and that i have earned the label "Elder" may have to do with my hmmmmh... posting addiction (i still read more posts than i write ) but i would not call this a merit.

I can understand MJKs concern and was upset by the labeling myself, just didn't consider the issue or myself important enough to mention it.

Now the topic is on schedule, i speak up.

But i don not want to complain around, rather suggest something constructive.


to use labels in your forum if it pleases you is right and ok. Would it be possible you choose labels which appear less judging, assessing? More neutral? maybe return to display the number of posts? this is a number just counting contributions and not assessing the contributor; i regretted it very much when the post counter disappeared.

See, there is a new guy on the SS forum board, he is a Neophyte, too, and gosh, this is self confidence, although Neophyte he behaves like Kublai Khan, hope the community manages to get the arrogance a bit down in order to make flames unprobable, but he has so much to contribute and so much technical wisdom, i don't want to loose him at all, i can so much learn from him.

So, from crossreading the other post i get the feeling MJK has a similar competence in his own field, just maybe not the kingsize self-confidence of the other guy . But MJK knows what he is worth and doesn't want to be downlabeled.

We are a creative bunch and ticklishness and strong will, kingsize ego, pride is very often found on such minds. The spirit of this whole forum site is wonderful, open-minded, helpful, friendly, mutually respectful (mostly ) but the labeling is a dark spot on this white vest and atleast the edges of it should be smoothened out, IMO.

Your decision, Jason, but if i would sit caught in your skin i would write MJK and apologize and call him back. Explain him that the issue is considered and cahges will be realized ASAP/with next software update etc.

He then gets a taste how this place really is.

I have another suggestion: you could add a label which allows each member to indicate on which level he would assess himself (then he has no reason to complain) those labels could be (helping the member to correctly judge himself and not to make himself a fool)

* adjusting the volume knob

* tweaking retail-bought equpiment

* building kits as prescribed

* modifying structures designed by others

* designing/building own stuff from the scratch

BTW, "Prophet" ranks above "Elder" in my book, too, agree with you PaulB , just hinting the labels are atleast misleading.


i agree with you that Jason puts all his freetime, his heartblood, his love and his working power into this site and we all benefit from it for zero$.

AFAIC, i am glad, utterly grateful to have found this place. Just this work overload sometimes can make blind a bit. Consider what the diyAudio newbie experiences 1st, he finds himself mislabeled and doesn't like it. He has not yet developed a full comprehension of what this site has to offer both down-to-earth info and the right constructive spirit. Danger is high it happens like with MJK or the "newbie" has a 1st glance and dissappears in the dark and we all will never have the pleasure to have him sharing his thoughs, contributing, asking "stupid" questions which trigger you to muse again and avoid a real stupid mistake costing you $$$.

I know what i am talking about, i advertised around in my DIY acquaintantceship and most fellas only saw the topics discussed here are not covering any current need. I may say that few of them had such a quick grasp like myself what this place is worth and it took me quite some work to rub their noses in to why i enthuse so much about this forum and atleast give it a try; 3 of them refused because of the labeling and other appearance issues.

So the labeling as it is now is not consistent to the forum's spirit IMO and this has nothing to do with Jason's enthusiasm and work. I would not be surprised at all if he just has not yet considered this labeling to possibly counteract his own intentions.
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Old 19th February 2002, 02:27 PM   #8
ucla88 is offline ucla88  Tahiti
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Location: rocklin, CA
first off, for those of you who might not know, martin king is making quite a bit of headway into TL speaker design. a bit of his work can be found here

i suggest that you consider reading his papers in depth if you are interested in TL design.

now, without getting into a protracted discussion let me say the following...

i do think this is a very good forum and applaud those who work to make it a reality, regardless of their form of compensation.

i agree that the moderator was well within his rights to not remove the label.

maybe mr king was overreacting. however, at times a bit of deference and flexibility is in order. had the moderator accepted mr king's request, would any of us have cared? on the other hand, maybe mr king was not overreacting-as in his case the label is certainly incorrect in regards to TL speaker design.

in this case, the moderator's inflexibility has driven away an obviously talented individual who could have contributed much on the loudspeaker front. my only question to the moderator is "why?"

and, as a last aside to answer griffs post, let me say that

the most important part of this forum are its members, not the moderators.

the moderators are part of a public forum open to debate, and their actions and posts, as yours and mine are subject to thoughtful criticism. reverting to a "circle the wagons" mentality is unlikely to foster further open discussion.
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Old 19th February 2002, 05:27 PM   #9
Chucko is offline Chucko
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Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA
Originally posted by ucla88
in this case, the moderator's inflexibility has driven away an obviously talented individual who could have contributed much on the loudspeaker front. my only question to the moderator is "why?"
I see it a bit differently. In this case, Mr. King's inflexibility has denied us the chance to learn from him - and maybe denied him the chance to learn from us. The moderator is blameless.

In fact, I applaud the moderator for not bowing to Mr. King's demand.

Again, I'll stop here, before I get uncivil.
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Old 19th February 2002, 08:04 PM   #10
HarryHaller is offline HarryHaller  United States
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dallas,Texas
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I can't believe the controversy. if someone is that thin skinned they are not going to last long on this forum or any other. This is the most civilized forum I have seen yet on the web, and I think the advice offered is fairly free of ego and nonsense. I expect to get flamed for errors and ego but that's life. This reminds me of the hotshot engineers that I use to work with. They got frustrated because I could debug and design easier than they could. I had to explain over and over again that I have been doing it for 20 years!

To paraphrase another Martin (L) King. " They will not be judged by the level of thier title but by the content and character of thier post."

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