i'm very disheartened to see this occur.
i would actually like the official forum moderator's response.
it is exceedingly unfortunate that there is so little apparent flexibility in the policy that it has succeded in chasing away the kind of member who could be truely helpful at this site.
is mr. king asking too much? i don't think so and a bit of deference to keep him isn't an unreasonable request.
i would actually like the official forum moderator's response.
it is exceedingly unfortunate that there is so little apparent flexibility in the policy that it has succeded in chasing away the kind of member who could be truely helpful at this site.
is mr. king asking too much? i don't think so and a bit of deference to keep him isn't an unreasonable request.
the most disheartening thing about this whole occurance is the reactions of those attacking the moderator of this site who puts endless hours into this site FOR YOU, and this is the thanks he gets! This site earns $0, costs you as a consumer $0 and above all is an excellent site. I know that personally i would have no projects complete without this site, and that is enough to keep me and i would have thought everyone here happy. Having some knowledge of the moderator, i know that he is currently extremely busy with work and other personal matters, and it is terrible to think that you would or anyone would get upset over a little thing such as the little names we get through our input into the site.
I may have gone a little over the top here but i thought it was necessary to point some things out, dont take it personally anyone, just think about it.
I may have gone a little over the top here but i thought it was necessary to point some things out, dont take it personally anyone, just think about it.
The use of user-ratings isn't that weird though, it's actually standard in all fora I know. But this forum is the only I know that uses labels. Most fora use things like stars, dots, etc. The more posts, the more stars. I don't object the use of labels, but they do tend to miss their meaning. I don't blame MJK for taking offense by this. What's the dutch translation for "Neophyte" anyway??
Bakmeel
Bakmeel
I just don't understand how somebody can react the way MJK did... Hello??? How old are you?? This is THE most importend website for audio DIY's and is a great help for my hobby.. it is the WWW at it's best!!
My advice... use a healthy sence of humor and your DIY life will be even better....
PS.. What am I .. already a prophet?.. hmmm better start learning the difference between FET's an and BJT's....
My advice... use a healthy sence of humor and your DIY life will be even better....
PS.. What am I .. already a prophet?.. hmmm better start learning the difference between FET's an and BJT's....
Hello ucla88, Jason and all,
Neophyte dice45 is writing here, i doubt i am member of this forum for more than 4 weeks and that i have earned the label "Elder" may have to do with my hmmmmh... posting addiction (i still read more posts than i write
) but i would not call this a merit.
I can understand MJKs concern and was upset by the labeling myself, just didn't consider the issue or myself important enough to mention it.
Now the topic is on schedule, i speak up.
But i don not want to complain around, rather suggest something constructive.
Jason,
to use labels in your forum if it pleases you is right and ok. Would it be possible you choose labels which appear less judging, assessing? More neutral? maybe return to display the number of posts? this is a number just counting contributions and not assessing the contributor; i regretted it very much when the post counter disappeared.
See, there is a new guy on the SS forum board, he is a Neophyte, too, and gosh, this is self confidence, although Neophyte he behaves like Kublai Khan, hope the community manages to get the arrogance a bit down in order to make flames unprobable, but he has so much to contribute and so much technical wisdom, i don't want to loose him at all, i can so much learn from him.
So, from crossreading the other post i get the feeling MJK has a similar competence in his own field, just maybe not the kingsize self-confidence of the other guy . But MJK knows what he is worth and doesn't want to be downlabeled.
We are a creative bunch and ticklishness and strong will, kingsize ego, pride is very often found on such minds. The spirit of this whole forum site is wonderful, open-minded, helpful, friendly, mutually respectful (mostly ) but the labeling is a dark spot on this white vest and atleast the edges of it should be smoothened out, IMO.
Your decision, Jason, but if i would sit caught in your skin i would write MJK and apologize and call him back. Explain him that the issue is considered and cahges will be realized ASAP/with next software update etc.
He then gets a taste how this place really is.
I have another suggestion: you could add a label which allows each member to indicate on which level he would assess himself (then he has no reason to complain) those labels could be (helping the member to correctly judge himself and not to make himself a fool)
* adjusting the volume knob
* tweaking retail-bought equpiment
* building kits as prescribed
* modifying structures designed by others
* designing/building own stuff from the scratch
BTW, "Prophet" ranks above "Elder" in my book, too, agree with you PaulB , just hinting the labels are atleast misleading.
Griff,
i agree with you that Jason puts all his freetime, his heartblood, his love and his working power into this site and we all benefit from it for zero$.
AFAIC, i am glad, utterly grateful to have found this place. Just this work overload sometimes can make blind a bit. Consider what the diyAudio newbie experiences 1st, he finds himself mislabeled and doesn't like it. He has not yet developed a full comprehension of what this site has to offer both down-to-earth info and the right constructive spirit. Danger is high it happens like with MJK or the "newbie" has a 1st glance and dissappears in the dark and we all will never have the pleasure to have him sharing his thoughs, contributing, asking "stupid" questions which trigger you to muse again and avoid a real stupid mistake costing you $$$.
I know what i am talking about, i advertised around in my DIY acquaintantceship and most fellas only saw the topics discussed here are not covering any current need. I may say that few of them had such a quick grasp like myself what this place is worth and it took me quite some work to rub their noses in to why i enthuse so much about this forum and atleast give it a try; 3 of them refused because of the labeling and other appearance issues.
So the labeling as it is now is not consistent to the forum's spirit IMO and this has nothing to do with Jason's enthusiasm and work. I would not be surprised at all if he just has not yet considered this labeling to possibly counteract his own intentions.
Neophyte dice45 is writing here, i doubt i am member of this forum for more than 4 weeks and that i have earned the label "Elder" may have to do with my hmmmmh... posting addiction (i still read more posts than i write
) but i would not call this a merit.I can understand MJKs concern and was upset by the labeling myself, just didn't consider the issue or myself important enough to mention it.
Now the topic is on schedule, i speak up.
But i don not want to complain around, rather suggest something constructive.
Jason,
to use labels in your forum if it pleases you is right and ok. Would it be possible you choose labels which appear less judging, assessing? More neutral? maybe return to display the number of posts? this is a number just counting contributions and not assessing the contributor; i regretted it very much when the post counter disappeared.
See, there is a new guy on the SS forum board, he is a Neophyte, too, and gosh, this is self confidence, although Neophyte he behaves like Kublai Khan, hope the community manages to get the arrogance a bit down in order to make flames unprobable, but he has so much to contribute and so much technical wisdom, i don't want to loose him at all, i can so much learn from him.
So, from crossreading the other post i get the feeling MJK has a similar competence in his own field, just maybe not the kingsize self-confidence of the other guy . But MJK knows what he is worth and doesn't want to be downlabeled.
We are a creative bunch and ticklishness and strong will, kingsize ego, pride is very often found on such minds. The spirit of this whole forum site is wonderful, open-minded, helpful, friendly, mutually respectful (mostly
) but the labeling is a dark spot on this white vest and atleast the edges of it should be smoothened out, IMO.Your decision, Jason, but if i would sit caught in your skin
i would write MJK and apologize and call him back. Explain him that the issue is considered and cahges will be realized ASAP/with next software update etc. He then gets a taste how this place really is.
I have another suggestion: you could add a label which allows each member to indicate on which level he would assess himself (then he has no reason to complain) those labels could be (helping the member to correctly judge himself and not to make himself a fool)
* adjusting the volume knob
* tweaking retail-bought equpiment
* building kits as prescribed
* modifying structures designed by others
* designing/building own stuff from the scratch
BTW, "Prophet" ranks above "Elder" in my book, too, agree with you PaulB
, just hinting the labels are atleast misleading.Griff,
i agree with you that Jason puts all his freetime, his heartblood, his love and his working power into this site and we all benefit from it for zero$.
AFAIC, i am glad, utterly grateful to have found this place. Just this work overload sometimes can make blind a bit. Consider what the diyAudio newbie experiences 1st, he finds himself mislabeled and doesn't like it. He has not yet developed a full comprehension of what this site has to offer both down-to-earth info and the right constructive spirit. Danger is high it happens like with MJK or the "newbie" has a 1st glance and dissappears in the dark and we all will never have the pleasure to have him sharing his thoughs, contributing, asking "stupid" questions which trigger you to muse again and avoid a real stupid mistake costing you $$$.
I know what i am talking about, i advertised around in my DIY acquaintantceship and most fellas only saw the topics discussed here are not covering any current need. I may say that few of them had such a quick grasp like myself what this place is worth and it took me quite some work to rub their noses in to why i enthuse so much about this forum and atleast give it a try; 3 of them refused because of the labeling and other appearance issues.
So the labeling as it is now is not consistent to the forum's spirit IMO and this has nothing to do with Jason's enthusiasm and work. I would not be surprised at all if he just has not yet considered this labeling to possibly counteract his own intentions.
first off, for those of you who might not know, martin king is making quite a bit of headway into TL speaker design. a bit of his work can be found here
i suggest that you consider reading his papers in depth if you are interested in TL design.
now, without getting into a protracted discussion let me say the following...
i do think this is a very good forum and applaud those who work to make it a reality, regardless of their form of compensation.
i agree that the moderator was well within his rights to not remove the label.
maybe mr king was overreacting. however, at times a bit of deference and flexibility is in order. had the moderator accepted mr king's request, would any of us have cared? on the other hand, maybe mr king was not overreacting-as in his case the label is certainly incorrect in regards to TL speaker design.
in this case, the moderator's inflexibility has driven away an obviously talented individual who could have contributed much on the loudspeaker front. my only question to the moderator is "why?"
and, as a last aside to answer griffs post, let me say that
the most important part of this forum are its members, not the moderators.
the moderators are part of a public forum open to debate, and their actions and posts, as yours and mine are subject to thoughtful criticism. reverting to a "circle the wagons" mentality is unlikely to foster further open discussion.
i suggest that you consider reading his papers in depth if you are interested in TL design.
now, without getting into a protracted discussion let me say the following...
i do think this is a very good forum and applaud those who work to make it a reality, regardless of their form of compensation.
i agree that the moderator was well within his rights to not remove the label.
maybe mr king was overreacting. however, at times a bit of deference and flexibility is in order. had the moderator accepted mr king's request, would any of us have cared? on the other hand, maybe mr king was not overreacting-as in his case the label is certainly incorrect in regards to TL speaker design.
in this case, the moderator's inflexibility has driven away an obviously talented individual who could have contributed much on the loudspeaker front. my only question to the moderator is "why?"
and, as a last aside to answer griffs post, let me say that
the most important part of this forum are its members, not the moderators.
the moderators are part of a public forum open to debate, and their actions and posts, as yours and mine are subject to thoughtful criticism. reverting to a "circle the wagons" mentality is unlikely to foster further open discussion.
ucla88 said:
I see it a bit differently. In this case, Mr. King's inflexibility has denied us the chance to learn from him - and maybe denied him the chance to learn from us. The moderator is blameless.
In fact, I applaud the moderator for not bowing to Mr. King's demand.
Again, I'll stop here, before I get uncivil.
Tempest in a teacup
I can't believe the controversy. if someone is that thin skinned they are not going to last long on this forum or any other. This is the most civilized forum I have seen yet on the web, and I think the advice offered is fairly free of ego and nonsense. I expect to get flamed for errors and ego but that's life. This reminds me of the hotshot engineers that I use to work with. They got frustrated because I could debug and design easier than they could. I had to explain over and over again that I have been doing it for 20 years!
To paraphrase another Martin (L) King. " They will not be judged by the level of thier title but by the content and character of thier post."
H.H.
I can't believe the controversy. if someone is that thin skinned they are not going to last long on this forum or any other. This is the most civilized forum I have seen yet on the web, and I think the advice offered is fairly free of ego and nonsense. I expect to get flamed for errors and ego but that's life. This reminds me of the hotshot engineers that I use to work with. They got frustrated because I could debug and design easier than they could. I had to explain over and over again that I have been doing it for 20 years!
To paraphrase another Martin (L) King. " They will not be judged by the level of thier title but by the content and character of thier post."
H.H.
I posted in the other thread and I will do so here since the topic seems to have forked in two directions.
Two points:
1) The Neophyte label only lasts for ten posts as I recall. Anyone who can't make ten posts...
2) The label can be changed by the user. If that isn't enough flexibility to suit a member, I'm not sure what else Jason is supposed to do to make everyone happy. I've never changed mine, because it never bothered me. I grew past getting upset about what people called me in the sixth grade.
At least this issue you have control over, unlike some of life's real problems.
I must say that if someone gets upset about the Neophyte label (and doesn't care to change it for some reason), then I don't think they'd last long, even in a mild-mannered forum such as this one. It's a pity, in my view--as I personally happen to be a big supporter of transmission lines--but as has been said before,"It takes all kinds of people..."
Grey
Two points:
1) The Neophyte label only lasts for ten posts as I recall. Anyone who can't make ten posts...
2) The label can be changed by the user. If that isn't enough flexibility to suit a member, I'm not sure what else Jason is supposed to do to make everyone happy. I've never changed mine, because it never bothered me. I grew past getting upset about what people called me in the sixth grade.
At least this issue you have control over, unlike some of life's real problems.
I must say that if someone gets upset about the Neophyte label (and doesn't care to change it for some reason), then I don't think they'd last long, even in a mild-mannered forum such as this one. It's a pity, in my view--as I personally happen to be a big supporter of transmission lines--but as has been said before,"It takes all kinds of people..."
Grey
Grey
I think you will find that members have no option over their label. A month or so ago, Jason did implement the ability to change labels for those that had achieved 'elder' status but then withdrew this facility a couple of days later. Perhaps your moderator status gives you additional facilities that us mere mortals are denied.
Geoff
I think you will find that members have no option over their label. A month or so ago, Jason did implement the ability to change labels for those that had achieved 'elder' status but then withdrew this facility a couple of days later. Perhaps your moderator status gives you additional facilities that us mere mortals are denied.
Geoff
it appears i am in the minority
oh well, it's not the first time.
many of you are missing my point. you're viewing this as some sort of clash of egos which, i think, is a rather emotional and unintellectual way of looking at it.
i don't personally know mr king. however, it seems that, from his posts, he is a pleasant gentleman who seemed to be helpful and polite to the other posters.
if he wishes to be called sir, well then, i will call him sir.
do you know why?
because he has something i want-in this case very good knowledge of TL design.
perhaps he will miss out by not contributing, perhaps not.
in any case, i will carry on an email conversation with mr king about TL's and likely learn a great deal.
my quest for knowledge continues. if i have to humble myself, so be it.
oh well, it's not the first time.
many of you are missing my point. you're viewing this as some sort of clash of egos which, i think, is a rather emotional and unintellectual way of looking at it.
i don't personally know mr king. however, it seems that, from his posts, he is a pleasant gentleman who seemed to be helpful and polite to the other posters.
if he wishes to be called sir, well then, i will call him sir.
do you know why?
because he has something i want-in this case very good knowledge of TL design.
perhaps he will miss out by not contributing, perhaps not.
in any case, i will carry on an email conversation with mr king about TL's and likely learn a great deal.
my quest for knowledge continues. if i have to humble myself, so be it.
Neophyte
Please change me back to Neophyte as I am still learning and always will be. I would hate to hurt any one's feelings on the basis of a title I received just for spending too much time on here.
Besides..... a prophet is without honor in his own country. I guess I had better make that several countries considering the scope of this forum. With my stance on jfets and mosfets maybe Audio Pro-Fet would be appropriate. Why... I believe that was a pun, sorry.
H.H.
"I would never belong to a club that would have me as a member" Groucho Marx
Please change me back to Neophyte as I am still learning and always will be. I would hate to hurt any one's feelings on the basis of a title I received just for spending too much time on here.
Besides..... a prophet is without honor in his own country. I guess I had better make that several countries considering the scope of this forum. With my stance on jfets and mosfets maybe Audio Pro-Fet would be appropriate. Why... I believe that was a pun, sorry.
H.H.
"I would never belong to a club that would have me as a member" Groucho Marx
If the ability to change the label was withdrawn, I missed seeing a post about it. Sorry about that. Hope I didn't confuse anyone. I remember seeing AudioFreak change his, and maybe some other folks, too. Plus ca change...
I don't know if I can change my own, since I've never tried. If I get a free moment, I'll give it a shot later, just for the sake of knowing.
Grey
I don't know if I can change my own, since I've never tried. If I get a free moment, I'll give it a shot later, just for the sake of knowing.
Grey
Well, my two cents.
I've been on quite a few internet forums, and this has to be by *FAR* the most helpful i've ever joined. Not only that, everyone's knowledgeable and willing to help. So, if all the grudge appearing here is someone complaining about his status, trust me, we're more than ok.
Now, MJK did wrong.... and he left without being able to be told he WAS wrong. A pitty. I do hope he gets back and sees things the way they are
I've been on quite a few internet forums, and this has to be by *FAR* the most helpful i've ever joined. Not only that, everyone's knowledgeable and willing to help. So, if all the grudge appearing here is someone complaining about his status, trust me, we're more than ok.
Now, MJK did wrong.... and he left without being able to be told he WAS wrong. A pitty. I do hope he gets back and sees things the way they are
Wow. I check into the site to see if anything interesting has been going on and I run into this! But I do love controversy, bring it on. Those of us who don't take ourselves too seriously find it adds some spice to life.
This week has been one of the busiest of my life, my best friend just got married, I am in charge of releasing 2 new products this week, and that's just the beginning!
Yes it's true I was inflexible when MJK emailed me and asked to be something other than a Neophyte. I explained the 10 posts thing and he said he didn't like labels so I said that's cool but I can't make any exceptions just for him the troops might get rowdy. If you get hot under the collar about a silly forum title I hate to think what else would upset you.
I agree that prophet is greater than elder (and that annoys me), and for me carries negative connotations since 911, I know I know, but you get that.
The "label" is a reward for contributing and is meant to be fun. Sure you can get around it by posting junk but hey. I would welcome some new 'levels' for people to pass through. The original ones were made when 100 posts was 10 times what anyone had posted (hello vdi!).
When I get my sorry *** unbusy enough to do this survey thing I've been talking about I'll gather some more feedback about whether people think titles are a good idea or not. For now they will stay as I am hesistant to break what isn't fixed (sic). "Next week" he says
This week has been one of the busiest of my life, my best friend just got married, I am in charge of releasing 2 new products this week, and that's just the beginning!
Yes it's true I was inflexible when MJK emailed me and asked to be something other than a Neophyte. I explained the 10 posts thing and he said he didn't like labels so I said that's cool but I can't make any exceptions just for him the troops might get rowdy. If you get hot under the collar about a silly forum title I hate to think what else would upset you.
I agree that prophet is greater than elder (and that annoys me), and for me carries negative connotations since 911, I know I know, but you get that.
The "label" is a reward for contributing and is meant to be fun. Sure you can get around it by posting junk but hey. I would welcome some new 'levels' for people to pass through. The original ones were made when 100 posts was 10 times what anyone had posted (hello vdi!).
When I get my sorry *** unbusy enough to do this survey thing I've been talking about I'll gather some more feedback about whether people think titles are a good idea or not. For now they will stay as I am hesistant to break what isn't fixed (sic). "Next week" he says
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