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Old 13th August 2013, 04:39 PM   #21
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Hi again,

I'll start out myself with an example from WIMA capacitors:

WIMA - Kondensatoren für die Elektronik

which describe (part?) of their environmental policy in their datasheets (image below). Thus with reference to the LCA chart it seems that WIMA is making an effort in the materials/acquisition, manufacturing (energy & resources optimization according to DIN14001) & packaging fields of a product's life cycle.

I don't know, though, if this is "good" or other manufacturers do more - or maybe less?

Any other examples?

Best regards,

Jesper
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... Being mindful about sustainability also in my audio endeavors matters to me ... paying CO2 - and a quite fair pollution compensation helps create a good listening "energy" ...
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Old 18th August 2013, 08:57 PM   #22
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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fair or not, have to say I found it weird to see this symbol on the back of my bass
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Old 18th August 2013, 09:12 PM   #23
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Sustainability. I think that everyone should do whatever they can to be certain that they use little to no resources whatsover. The degrees of their sacrifice should be commensurate with their activism. Yes true, some will pay a the ultimate price, but their honor will serve as fine examples for the rest of us. Their names will be spoken with reverence. In fact if we had enough of these exemplary activists as examples, the end goal could be achieved and all resources will once again be deemed to be abundant.

Last edited by peteleoni; 18th August 2013 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 18th August 2013, 09:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
I have never seen anyone talk about the sustainability of audio.
I for one, never discussed this because I have stuck my head firmly into the sand on this matter. I.e. It is probably one area in my life where I simply do not want to compromise my selfish little goals. Still every now and then I'm ashamed.
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Old 18th August 2013, 09:35 PM   #25
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Seriously though, it would seem that oil based plastics would be the
best thing for speakers cabs, as oil is now established as a completely non-exhaustible resource for the foreseeable future. I do not like to see trees cut down, takes too long to grow them.
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Old 21st August 2013, 11:17 PM   #26
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Trees grow a lot faster than phytoplankton becomes oil.

I wrote a paper in econ many years ago about trying to find the true cost of something. That's cost, not price. When you buy oil, you are only paying a processing fee, the cost was paid over the last few million years. I concluded the only measure would be in solar units. How do you determine the cost of an idea? Not easy. Even the cost of labor is not easy to add up. Price is, cost is not.

If you try to look at cost, you will find oil is very very expensive. It is finite right now. We are just now becoming capable of producing oil out of other organics, but again, very expensive.

The flip side of DIY is the new junk being sold that is only designed to last as far as the front door. Sustainable is when I re-cap a Hafler from the 70's or keep buying Parasounds off e-bay instead of the garbage being sold in the retail stores now.

ROHS does not sound as green as recycling when it uses materials that are no more sustainable and sometimes not as functional. Kind of like the incandescent light bulb fraud, If yo total the actual cost ( not price) of a CLF it is way higher in even just energy used over the total life. 6 light bulbs take less energy to produce and use from mine to disposal than one CFL.

On the DIY side, my engraved front panels use less energy that the vacuum fluorescent displays in store bought stuff.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 01:55 AM   #27
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Thanks. Got it. Put it through the filter. With that many words behind it, I know the real deal. So
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Old 22nd August 2013, 05:36 AM   #28
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....I think that because that I actually do care about other people, and I think that we need a lot more industry to keep things working and clean Ill be *not* avoiding plastic. Non resonant too.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 05:39 AM   #29
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Seriously, there is something that we all can do to cut down on our use of resources but it takes a hell of a commitment. I think that those who are most committed should go first. (-:
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Old 22nd August 2013, 06:26 AM   #30
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Hi all,

Hmmm ... Reading through the posts from beginning to now I notice that this topic of sustainability in audio appears to have quite some emotional aspects to it as well. This may be as it is and also fine ... I'd just like to invite all to remember keeping a respectful tone, implicitly and explicitly, whatever their opinions or feelings about something ... Given that fully sustainable production to my knowledge has not yet been made possible outside of simple product cycles (very local food production for example) I assume there are many potential ways to look at this and also offer solutions.

To this end my personal approach is the cradle-to-cradle (C2C) philosophy:

Cradle-to-cradle design - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

which in my opinion/understanding offers a path/direction to pursue: Produce and use in ways that lead to nature compliant waste or re-used waste (put somewhat reduced), although currently production is some way from being there.

An example from another line of business can be a clothes linen producer in Switzerland which, some years ago after a C2C analysis, went from using some thousands of different substances in their production to about 20 (& I understand that these were more sustainable. I remember my source for this being the C2C book by McDonough & Braungart: "Cradle to Cradle: Remaking the Way We Make Things" but I'm not quite sure about this).

Could something similar be done in the audio industry, what would it take, and who does it?

My reason for posting the LCA chart above is to invite diy'ers here with other knowledge to - in a practical & solution oriented way - post their insights on what actual companies/technologies are doing in terms of sustainability initiatives with respect to various parameters. The LCA chart IMHO offers a reasonably structured way to look at this and to exchange about it ... My reason for suggesting it used is to be able to focus an exchange here which could otherwise become quite wide ... (please feel free to post better/more feasible suggestions).

@tvrgeek:
Quote:
I wrote a paper in econ many years ago about trying to find the true cost of something. That's cost, not price. When you buy oil, you are only paying a processing fee, the cost was paid over the last few million years. I concluded the only measure would be in solar units. How do you determine the cost of an idea? Not easy. Even the cost of labor is not easy to add up. Price is, cost is not.
Thanks for your input. Sounds like a very interesting approach you have - would you be willing to share your paper with me (moensted1 at hotmail.com)? Myself I've been much inspired by this paper:

http://web.pdx.edu/~kub/publicfiles/...h_2006_GPI.pdf

which appears to address the topic from a somewhat different angle by e.g. looking at the difference between GDP and GP (GP=genuine progress, i.e. production value when considering the side-effects of production). But from reading what you write the message could be along similar lines.

Greetings,

Jesper
__________________
... Being mindful about sustainability also in my audio endeavors matters to me ... paying CO2 - and a quite fair pollution compensation helps create a good listening "energy" ...

Last edited by gentlevoice; 22nd August 2013 at 06:30 AM.
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