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Old 11th February 2013, 11:44 PM   #11
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Thanks Weltersys!

gives me some latitude to experiment .................

Your comments on LiFePO4 are illuminating!

An e-bike here costs about 2000rmb (about 330USD) so changing the battery type would be a case specific solution, but adding 12V [a battery pack] would be very practical.
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Old 12th February 2013, 07:03 PM   #12
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They've been racing electric bikes at the Isle of Man TT for a few years now but they only have to do one lap of 38 miles.
Highest average speed last year was 104mph.

TT ZERO RACE (ELectric Bikes) 2010 10th June - YouTube

Last edited by Charles Darwin; 12th February 2013 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 12th February 2013, 07:13 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
They've been racing electric bikes at the Isle of Man TT for a few years now but they only have to do one lap of 38 miles.
Highest average speed last year was 104mph.

TT ZERO RACE (ELectric Bikes) 2010 10th June - YouTube
Cool, I could enter my bike, and make it to the finish dead last (90 minutes after starting) with one mile of charge still left in the battery .

104 mph average speed for 38 miles is impressive for electric, wonder what type of battery chemistry they are using?
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Old 12th February 2013, 07:26 PM   #14
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I have no idea.

This is all the info I could find, may be it mentions the battery somewhere on the site.

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Old 12th February 2013, 07:55 PM   #15
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I don't believe that e-bikes are there yet unfortunately. :/ The problem is that battery technology hasn't gotten efficient enough.

Go with a gas powered bicycle! My 2 stroke can hit 40 mph and gets 90 mpg. It also cost me $400.
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Old 12th February 2013, 08:27 PM   #16
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I just realized that that TT bike has more than twice the torque of BMW 335i!!!

Almost scary.
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Old 12th February 2013, 09:05 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by techbiker View Post
I don't believe that e-bikes are there yet unfortunately. :/ The problem is that battery technology hasn't gotten efficient enough.

Go with a gas powered bicycle! My 2 stroke can hit 40 mph and gets 90 mpg. It also cost me $400.
My 2 stroke moped died a few days after I sold it with about 500 miles on the odometer.
My Ebike can go 90 miles on about 78 cents of electricity cost (3KW at $.11 per KWH) and can hit 46 mph.
I can charge it for free from the solar panel I have on my travel trailer, and several free spots in town.

The $900 battery bank is rated for 1500 discharges, about 57,000 miles.
57,000 miles at 90 MPG takes 633.33 gallons, at $3 per gallon (we'll pretend gas prices will come down, and won't count the cost of the messy oil you need to mix in) that would be $1900, but you would probably go through a couple 2 stroke engines in that many miles.
Even if I pay for all the electricity and the battery bank, and the 2 stroke survived, I'd be ahead $500.

Are we there yet ?

Art

Last edited by weltersys; 12th February 2013 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 13th February 2013, 07:50 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
My 2 stroke moped died a few days after I sold it with about 500 miles on the odometer.
My Ebike can go 90 miles on about 78 cents of electricity cost (3KW at $.11 per KWH) and can hit 46 mph.
I can charge it for free from the solar panel I have on my travel trailer, and several free spots in town.

The $900 battery bank is rated for 1500 discharges, about 57,000 miles.
57,000 miles at 90 MPG takes 633.33 gallons, at $3 per gallon (we'll pretend gas prices will come down, and won't count the cost of the messy oil you need to mix in) that would be $1900, but you would probably go through a couple 2 stroke engines in that many miles.
Even if I pay for all the electricity and the battery bank, and the 2 stroke survived, I'd be ahead $500.

Are we there yet ?

Art
Art,

I'm excited that people here are into motorized bikes and I have nothing against e-bikes. I just want to let everyone know that e-bikes and gas powered bikes each have their advantages. Also, I don't know what battery you are using, but if it can maintain 30mph for 90 miles, you've stumbled upon battery gold. Even the $1000 batteries I've seen rarely go that far even at 15mph. Also, do you plan to ride your bike 57,000 miles (even with a battery that will be mediocre then)? That is 119 days of straight riding (at 20mph, a likely speed for an electric bike)! It will take you years to break even cost-wise.

E-bike pros:

-quiet
-legal in more states/ countries
-no gas smell
-comparatively great low-end torque

E-bike negatives:

-expensive batteries. The cheap ones are very heavy and do not hold much power.
-lack of charging stations. Once you have gone ~30 miles at 30mph and your battery dies, you have to wait a couple hours for it to charge again before leaving. Also, it is hard to find electric charging stations away from home.
-More power hungry at faster speeds. Even very expensive batteries rarely hold enough power to maintain a reasonable 30 mph for miles at a time.
-The previously discussed electric motor limitations.
-Battery fade. All batteries slowly lose their power holding potential. A battery that is 3 years old and has been used regularly will hold much less than a new battery.

Gas bike positives-

-Will run continuously at high speeds (30mph+) given adequate cooling and engine power. I get 90mpg running my bike at 30mph continuously (more like 140mpg at 15mph). I got a huge bike seat and rode my 2-stroke for 6 hours at 27-30mph one day.
-Cheap engine power. My entire 2-stroke bike kit cost me less than $300 including mount and a 5hp engine. I paid about $150 for the bike.
-Numerous gas stations, no fear of running out of fuel
-Much lower initial cost
-Manly engine growl (I love the sound of a 2-stroke revving!)
-Light weight. My 2 stroke with engine mount weighs about 14 pounds.

-Gas bike negatives

-can be loud (depending on exhaust)
-fuel smell
-2-stroke engines might only last ~3000 miles before needing to be re-ringed. Not expensive or hard, but a cost. I'd fully expect to get 10,000-15,000 miles out of a properly-maintained 2-stroke bottom end.
-not legal in all states or countries

Again, pick the motor type based on your needs but e-bikes are not the only choice!
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Old 14th February 2013, 03:36 PM   #19
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In some retirement communities where the residents zip around in golf carts. Some of these old hot rodders get special 8 or 14 Volt batteries to replace the normal 6 & 12 Volt units. They need to get to the Bingo game quick.
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Old 11th October 2014, 01:19 PM   #20
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I am skeptical of what design to choose between an 2014 made 500W Hub wheel at 48V Versus an fresh 36V 250W mid-drive system ?

Regarding batteries I am planning to use the latest LifePO of Headway by combining as much are needed.

I have the impression that a Mid-drive solution would be far enjoyable inside the city blocks in which speed is slow and there is lots of start /stop due traffic control headlights.

From the other hand I have the feeling that a gear less hub motor, it can serve best at open road, but I do this assumption by not be aware of how much heat it can dissipate and in what speed so to maintain a stable operation with out the risk to over heat.

In simple English if the hub motor at 500W 48V needs to maintain an 250W consumption so to remain cool ( That is half speed from the max) ? In this case the Mid-drive system does not seem skimpy ( a poorer performer).
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