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Old 4th November 2012, 01:54 PM   #11
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I think, iirc, the circuit is not particularly low distortion on measurements... iirc the discussion elsewhere is that the circuit produces very little higher order harmonics... it probably sounds really good. And if it produces high current then it will drive the pants off very difficult loads...

Price?

Dunno, but I'd like to sell some stuff at this price point.
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Old 4th November 2012, 02:15 PM   #12
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iirc the discussion elsewhere is that the circuit produces very little higher order harmonics...
It produces less higher order crud then it does low order, but the absolute level of the high order stuff is still high, certainly when compared with the highyly priced but well designed good stuff from MBL/MF etc.

As I said in another thread, it's a reasonably powerful, but poorly performing amplifier shoved inside a glorified PC case. Just what the audiophool crowd like and that it costs a fortune, this almost guarantees that it will be highly praised by subjective reviewers.

I know that large heatsinks, matched transistors, large filter caps and large transformers can cost a decent amount, but nothing about that amplifier justifies it's insane price tag. Much the same as nothing technical really justifies the price of a Rolex, except for the fact that it's a Rolex and it cost a lot...
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Old 4th November 2012, 05:44 PM   #13
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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So I'll stick with my Casio $40 watch and used Parasound $350 amps, which means I can still eat, get to work on time, and concentrate on building better speakers. Oh yea, I did "hand tune" the amps. In other words, I set the bias correctly as John told me to. It does help.
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Old 5th November 2012, 09:33 AM   #14
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LOL, voicing, its electronics and physics, its engineering design, not desining a musical intrument. I find these claims from "hi end" audio rather absurd. The whole point is repreduction of sounds, with as much fidelity as possible, voicing iplies this is not being done, and any one involvedin the commercial design of products should be able to measure there designs. Thismyth about desining by ears alone is rather silly, but caters tos mooth the soul who is being fleaced of a few grand, and adds tothe mystism that sourounds some aspects of audio design.
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Old 5th November 2012, 11:53 AM   #15
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LOL, voicing, its electronics and physics, its engineering design, not desining a musical intrument. I find these claims from "hi end" audio rather absurd. The whole point is repreduction of sounds, with as much fidelity as possible, voicing iplies this is not being done, and any one involvedin the commercial design of products should be able to measure there designs. Thismyth about desining by ears alone is rather silly, but caters tos mooth the soul who is being fleaced of a few grand, and adds tothe mystism that sourounds some aspects of audio design.
I can show you simulated performance of 5 high-end amplifiers, and I believe you will have a hard time to find out which one that will have more possibility for success in the market. I don't believe you will pick the lowest THD, or the lowest TIM, or even the widest bandwidth, or whatever decision based on numbers. And if it were so, what does that tell us? Can you tell that you know more than others?

If you want to sell high end amps to such a niche market, at least you have to do some research to understand the trend, tendency or even "taste" of your target market. You may also need to understand what speakers they are using. It is not uncommon to match (hence to voice) an amp to a certain high-end speaker.

To do most of this you need ears. Because if you think all amps sound the same, you're in a dead end. May be enclosing blameless amp in a gold enclosure will work for you. But it wont be a success.
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Old 5th November 2012, 12:23 PM   #16
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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We'll have to agree to disagree, I belive in hi-fidelity, ie the system should repreduce the music source with as little colouration as possible, warts and all (ie bad recordings).
As to the term voice it means you are creating a paticular sound, that is not true hi-fi realy, now matching a amp to a speaker is a term I could understand being used, but never voice, while it may be a good mareting term for high end audio it implys adding distortaions from the origional signal to give an ampits signature sound. But then I'mnever gonna spendthat sort of dosh on a pair of amps...and my ears are no good cos I cant differentiate different interconnects etc
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Old 5th November 2012, 12:29 PM   #17
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Exotic hi end industry is not good old hi fidelity. Its just another pass time for the very rich. Made to please not to make sense.
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Old 5th November 2012, 12:47 PM   #18
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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designed to please not to make sense.
oh, I almost misread what you wrote and read it like not designed to please but to sense
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Old 5th November 2012, 01:09 PM   #19
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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We'll have to agree to disagree, I belive in hi-fidelity, ie the system should repreduce the music source with as little colouration as possible, warts and all (ie bad recordings).
I also believe in high fidelity. Except that I don't think that lower THD means higher fidelity.

Quote:
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As to the term voice it means you are creating a paticular sound, that is not true hi-fi realy, now matching a amp to a speaker is a term I could understand being used, but never voice,
No, voicing is not adding 2nd order distortion. It is just to test the resultant performance of a system by ears, as there is no rule like Hi-Fi=(0.4/THD) + (0.1/IMD) + (DF/15) + ... eww... don't you know that there are many criteria for a good amp that is not in those common parameters??

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and my ears are no good cos I cant differentiate different interconnects etc
Buy the cheapest 2m interconnect, compare with a 0.25m one.
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Old 6th November 2012, 10:05 AM   #20
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I think, iirc, the circuit is not particularly low distortion on measurements... iirc the discussion elsewhere is that the circuit produces very little higher order harmonics...
The distortion graph looks like a high feedback amplifier with open loop emitter follower output stage. There is crossover distortion or maybe gm doubling, but low order harmonics. The output impedance is quite high too.

I like the way that power has to be off before touching a cable, the reviewer blew one amplifier.
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