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Old 31st October 2012, 08:44 PM   #1
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Default Audio-related questions

Hi. I'm asking these questions because I may try to make a commercial product (one day - or it may never happen). I do also enjoy diy electronics.

Please excuse my ignorance, I'm just starting out with a growing interest in audio electronics, and peoples likes and dislikes.

#1: Why are people making amplifiers with an output of 150 Watts? I mean, for your average living room won't a 10W amplifier do?
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Old 31st October 2012, 08:59 PM   #2
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#2: I've got the Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill. Something of a starter. What other 3 books that are dedicated to solid state audio, would you recommend, that would help me begin to engage (eventually) in solid state amplifier design? Thanks.

Last edited by richard8976; 31st October 2012 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 31st October 2012, 09:16 PM   #3
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Modern speakers tend to be less efficient?
Modern listeners tend to like things very loud?

Read Doug Self. Even those who disagree with him ought to learn something useful.
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Old 31st October 2012, 09:57 PM   #4
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I've a ton of books in my wishlist. Cordell and Self seem to be currently popular authors. Probably those two would be good to set the ball rolling. Jones perhaps for hollow state.

Just ordered Cordell. See what the OM has to say. :c)

Last edited by richard8976; 31st October 2012 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 31st October 2012, 10:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Modern speakers tend to be less efficient?
Modern listeners tend to like things very loud?

Read Doug Self. Even those who disagree with him ought to learn something useful.
"Modern listers" being say under 25.
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Old 1st November 2012, 07:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard8976 View Post
#1: Why are people making amplifiers with an output of 150 Watts? I mean, for your average living room won't a 10W amplifier do?
Is it because you can run the amplifier well within it's capabilities and therfore it will sound better?
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Old 1st November 2012, 08:32 AM   #7
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard8976 View Post
#1: Why are people making amplifiers with an output of 150 Watts? I mean, for your average living room won't a 10W amplifier do?
Bass notes and inefficient speaker drivers like current.

And the quality of a first 10W of a 150W amp is often better than the quality of near-clipping 10W amp.

Some transistors also like high voltage or current drive. In many kits I found in the local market, gain are set so high that the amp will clip with the given power supply voltage. You can lower the gain to get the same power, and the distortion will usually be lower, but you may loose the "drive".
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Old 1st November 2012, 01:06 PM   #8
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I need to know about all the aspects of bringing an audio product to production. Perhaps I need to be elsewhere in some respects given the nature of some of my enquiries.

#3: Can anyone recommend a technical forum where I might touch bases with those who know about electronic enclosures? Or does anyone here know about and have experience of electronic enclosures? Thanks.

I am concious of being on a diy forum for audio enthusiasts, yet my current motive is more commercial at this time.

Last edited by richard8976; 1st November 2012 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 1st November 2012, 02:02 PM   #9
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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If you listen to music, rather than overly compressed versions of what used to be music, you will find that average listening levels are very much lower than peak listening level/s.
Some music may be artificially "squashed" such that peak to average is only 6dB.
Much good and dynamic music has peak to average ratios approaching and even exceeding 15dB.
Some very dynamic music and particularly live music that has no electric sound reinforcement will exceed 30dB peak to average ratios.

Now put those numbers into a sound reproduction system that you want at home.

Situation 1.
Listen to music at an average level of around 60dB to 70dB from a pair of speakers about 2.4m away, that have a sensitivity of 90dB/W @ 1m
Your average level is very approximately 2.5mW to 25mW. To reproduce +6dB peaks will require a pair of 10mW to 100mW amplifiers to avoid clipping of the loudest transients.
Change to very dynamic music with a 30dB ratio of p:a and you would need a pair of 3W to 30W amplifiers to avoid clipping of the quite rare extreme peaks.

Situation 2.
Listen to music at an average level of around 75dB from a pair of speakers about 2.4m away, that have a sensitivity of 85dB/W @ 1m
Your average level is very approximately 250mW. To reproduce +6dB peaks will require a pair of 1W amplifiers to avoid clipping of the loudest transients.
Change to very dynamic music with a 30dB ratio of p:a and you would need a pair of 300W amplifiers to avoid clipping of the quite rare extreme peaks.

A pair of 100W amplifiers driving 85dB/W @ 1m speakers would allow a transient peak of ~ 25dB above your average level of 75dB to be passed unclipped. That's not a bad target:- 100dB for peak transient SPL at the listening seat. But many listeners will demand much more than 100dB . 105dB at your seat is achieved by many, 110dB at your seat is relatively rare.

Simply changing from 85dB/W speakers to 95dB/W speakers gets to that high level target of 110dB with a pair of 100W amplifiers.

I have checked my numbers but there could still be an error or two. If you spot any arithmetic errors please feedback and I will arrange correction.
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regards Andrew T.

Last edited by AndrewT; 1st November 2012 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 1st November 2012, 02:16 PM   #10
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Andrew T.: That's interesting stuff to take into consideration. Much obliged. Gives a sense of why folks might want a 150W amplifier.

Last edited by richard8976; 1st November 2012 at 02:19 PM.
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