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Old 21st October 2003, 01:02 AM   #21
Mark Kravchenko --- www.kravchenko-audio.com
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Default FILLED WITH EPOXY RESIN!!!!!

I think that you have answered your own question. Rough up the interior side of your cover with some paper40 grit or lesser and do your work. Tape the cover on properly for a good fit and then fill your case with your epoxy. It will make up a monolithic structure that will keep itself tohether.

Mark
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Old 21st October 2003, 01:02 AM   #22
OliverD is offline OliverD  Germany
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Forgot the most important:

Don't know the proper english terms, but glue wants to be loaded/stressed from a pulling direction, not sideways. That means, if you glue the plates as intended, stressing the plates from the side will be worse than pulling on them (or the power cord). Probably the plates are a bit bigger than the 40x100mm of the extrusion, I assume. So if the unit sits on the plates and someone puts some weight on the extrusion part of it, say a bottle of red wine, the glue will be much weaker than expected.
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Old 21st October 2003, 01:03 AM   #23
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Default Re: brazing?

Quote:
Originally posted by ultrachrome
How about brazing? Sort of like soldering with a blow torch. I don't know about availability in your neck of the woods but I can pickup low-temp brazing rods and a brazing torch for about $50 from my local hardware store.

I haven't tried it yet but it seems like that would be the way to go.
With aluminum, you're stuck with TIG welding. Brazing is more like a high temp soldering using brass as the molten metal. With copper, it could be soldered with silver nickel or the usual flux core wire.

:)ensen.
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Old 21st October 2003, 01:03 AM   #24
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Default Re: brazing?

Quote:
Originally posted by ultrachrome
How about brazing? Sort of like soldering with a blow torch. I don't know about availability in your neck of the woods but I can pickup low-temp brazing rods and a brazing torch for about $50 from my local hardware store.

I haven't tried it yet but it seems like that would be the way to go.
On aluminium is kind of an art... one I don't master at all. Besides, parts have final finish, anodizing and all. I'll have to check if those adhesives work over anodized aluminium, by the way.

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Old 21st October 2003, 01:07 AM   #25
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Default Re: FILLED WITH EPOXY RESIN!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by mwmkravchenko
I think that you have answered your own question. Rough up the interior side of your cover with some paper40 grit or lesser and do your work. Tape the cover on properly for a good fit and then fill your case with your epoxy. It will make up a monolithic structure that will keep itself tohether.

Mark
With this volume, I'd hate to think how much the epoxy would cost!



Quote:
Originally posted by AMT-freak
Forgot the most important:

Don't know the proper english terms, but glue wants to be loaded/stressed from a pulling direction, not sideways. That means, if you glue the plates as intended, stressing the plates from the side will be worse than pulling on them (or the power cord). Probably the plates are a bit bigger than the 40x100mm of the extrusion, I assume. So if the unit sits on the plates and someone puts some weight on the extrusion part of it, say a bottle of red wine, the glue will be much weaker than expected.

Shear.

And I alway understood adhesive to work best under shear, hence the popularity of honeycomb panels in aircraft. The pulling or peeling is what causes a lot of delaminations.

:)ensen.
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Old 21st October 2003, 01:08 AM   #26
AndyN is offline AndyN  United States
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Default Re: Aluminum glue

From the description of the assembly, I'd look at blind studs, meaning threaded fasteners that don't go through the material.
Drill a pilot hole, and press them into the aluminum plate.

If you stick with glue, :-) Look to the DIY aircraft community. Here in the US, I have had good dealings with "Aircraft Spruce"

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo.../polyepoxy.php

Absolute cleanliness is essential to a good bond. Alcohol, Acetone, Methly Ethyl Ketone are all good solvents to prepare surfaces. Use proper protective gloves and equipment.

Think too about the loads on the bonded joint; the best adhesive in the world won't hold a poorly engineered joint, and I've seen plenty of broken welds, too. All victims of poor structural engineering.

In my opinion, anybody who builds stuff for fun or profit should read the series of books by a race car builder named Caroll Smith. Look for "Engineer to Win" which is a fantastic mix of technical detail and readable, understandable engineering practice. As Mr Smith says in his books: "Build it so it has a chance to survive"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...626345-5382449
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Old 21st October 2003, 01:11 AM   #27
OliverD is offline OliverD  Germany
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Default Re: Re: FILLED WITH EPOXY RESIN!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by purplepeople
And I alway understood adhesive to work best under shear, hence the popularity of honeycomb panels in aircraft. The pulling or peeling is what causes a lot of delaminations.
Not with this "filler" type of glue I was referring to. Damn, it's hard expressing what you mean when you don't have the proper terms at hand. I should stick to electronics.
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Old 21st October 2003, 01:15 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Christer


And, of course, since many modern aircraft, at least military ones,
like the swedish JAS are mainly made from composites rather
than aluminum, welding is not an option. Not that welding
aluminium is very easy either AFAIK.
the nexgen Airbuses and Boeings have huge % composites. from talking to some of the execs at their suppliers the ability to engineer in precise strength and safety factors, coupled with economy is just overwhelming.

the point on the (by now dated) F14 -- perhaps I should have expanded a bit more -- because this aircraft is 'carrier based it's chasis takes a lot more pounding than the F18 but they are still able to glue on a flak jacket to the undercarriage which can take all the abuse.

on the superiority of European TV -- when I was giving a presentation in Madrid a few years back the German station had a show which explained the operation of anerobics in terms which would please any chemist or physicist. in the 'States we have to dumb it down to the LCD.

this criricism of US culture being said, I can get overnite delivery on a score of high tech cyanoacrylate adhesives from Tower Hobbies with just the click of a mouse, and if you need lots of goop just look for Marine Stores for Gougeon epoxies.
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Old 21st October 2003, 01:15 AM   #29
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Someone mentioned aircraft, well any welding on that is going to be certified, and presumably, done by a certified welder. For someone with that much experience, welding aluminum would be a breeze.

Brazing aluminum is done with a rod made of mostly zinc - you torch everything so it's right on the melting point of the filler, then rub the rod across the joint to get under the aluminum oxide skin. Makes nice fillets, but don't even think about capillary action as with steel+brass joints. I've only tried it with pennium (melted pennies ) which is almost pure zinc... probably much stronger with a few % aluminum in the alloy.

But I digress...

Surely there is a way to add mechanical fasteners. Flush rivets even maybe?

Tim
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Old 21st October 2003, 01:20 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by AMT-freak
The 4mm thickness doesn't sound good to me. Not a big area for applying glue especially if a mains power cord is fixed to the plate.
This should be solved by the resin inside, it will hold the cord when cured. The glue serves also the purpose of "closing the box", so to say, and keep the resin inside when poured.

Quote:
Originally posted by AMT-freak
Assume a user dragging the device around or even letting it hang from the power cord. You never know
That's exactly my feeling, you never know!

I'm not sure that once the box is filled the resin inside will strongly bond to the plates... apparently yes (and if it does problem solved) , but I have a feeling that on a sharp whack it just gets detached.

Quote:
Originally posted by AMT-freak
Forgot the most important:

Don't know the proper english terms, but glue wants to be loaded/stressed from a pulling direction, not sideways. That means, if you glue the plates as intended, stressing the plates from the side will be worse than pulling on them (or the power cord). Probably the plates are a bit bigger than the 40x100mm of the extrusion, I assume. So if the unit sits on the plates and someone puts some weight on the extrusion part of it, say a bottle of red wine, the glue will be much weaker than expected.
No, the plates are exactly the same box dimensions, (I think I'll have to post a photo to make things clear) and the box sits on it's bottom which is about a foot long... so no problems on this side. I'm probabily over-cautious, but since inside there is plain
mains voltage, if I can avoide even a small chance I would go for it.

ciao,
Roberto Amato
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