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Old 17th June 2012, 05:21 PM   #1
crt is offline crt  Indonesia
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Default Motorcycle Regulator/Rectifier

I'm still learning and need a comment about this two type of "shunting"
which one is preferred ?
comment are welcome

Click the image to open in full size.

I'll use it for motorcycle R/R

Regards
La Ode
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Old 20th June 2012, 05:13 AM   #2
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I do not want to disappoint you, but these simple circuits, without immunity to spikes may not work. I can add nothing more.

Gajanan Phadte
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Old 20th June 2012, 02:57 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmphadte View Post
I do not want to disappoint you, but these simple circuits, without immunity to spikes may not work. I can add nothing more.

Gajanan Phadte
Thank's for your reply

I understand, this circuit is way to simple
but i just want to know about SHUNTING mode of SCR
Which one should be preferred,
SHUNTING all the excess Voltage from Alternator (AC) to Ground or to each Alternator
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Old 20th June 2012, 05:00 PM   #4
Elvee is offline Elvee  Belgium
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My preference would go for the first one: the second might have issues of spurious SCR triggering.
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Old 21st June 2012, 03:29 AM   #5
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It would help understanding if you draw in the bridge diodes.

The second circuit is better if it works. It avoids passing the shunted current through two of the diodes in the bridge. However, the voltage needed to trigger the SCRs will be lower because the same two diodes are between the cathodes and ground. Consequently if the trigger circuit is correct for one version, it is not optimum for the other. They are not two designs, but rather one design and one clumsy adaptation. Which is the original? First is more obvious.

The first circuit will work into an open circuit, but I'm not sure about the second. If there is no current, then the trigger voltage seems indeterminate. However, since the machine cannot run without some current, presumably, that won't be an issue.

In the second case the trigger current passes through the stator. Leakage inductance might be a nuisance, as others suggest. Do alternators have caps built in to the stator?

Could be wrong
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Old 21st June 2012, 01:09 PM   #6
crt is offline crt  Indonesia
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Elvee & PlasticIsGood
Thank's for reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvee View Post
My preference would go for the first one: the second might have issues of spurious SCR triggering.
Yes, common R/R was made with the first one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticIsGood View Post
It would help understanding if you draw in the bridge diodes.

The second circuit is better if it works. It avoids passing the shunted current through two of the diodes in the bridge. However, the voltage needed to trigger the SCRs will be lower because the same two diodes are between the cathodes and ground. Consequently if the trigger circuit is correct for one version, it is not optimum for the other. They are not two designs, but rather one design and one clumsy adaptation. Which is the original? First is more obvious.

The first circuit will work into an open circuit, but I'm not sure about the second. If there is no current, then the trigger voltage seems indeterminate. However, since the machine cannot run without some current, presumably, that won't be an issue.

In the second case the trigger current passes through the stator. Leakage inductance might be a nuisance, as others suggest. Do alternators have caps built in to the stator?

Could be wrong
Ok, this is with Bridge Diode shows

Click the image to open in full size.

First one is Commonly used at R/R

But i seen this variation, but i don't know yet it will work without problem or not

AFAIK Motorcycle alternator don't have caps
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Old 22nd June 2012, 01:47 AM   #7
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I hope the new drawing helps you to understand how current flows around the circuits.

Did the variation have a specific purpose?

The original circuit does the job, which is to keep the battery charged. The modifications, if they work, cannot keep the battery more charged, or change the maximum current available from the alternator. It's unlikely that the modified circuit would do its job more reliably, although it is possible that the circuit itself could be more durable. So what would "better" mean?

There is some possibility that it places less of a load on the engine in some circumstances. Are you going to be entering an endurance race? Do you mind if the bike blows up the day after?

A fire between your legs at 150kph on a busy road is really scary. Unless the modification has been proven, or you are prepared to do a lot of thorough testing and measuring, stick with the original version.
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Old 22nd June 2012, 12:00 PM   #8
crt is offline crt  Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticIsGood View Post
Did the variation have a specific purpose?
Common faulty at R/R is Diode bridge (from alternaltor to ground) broken
SO MAYBE the second circuit will perform better for "lifetime"


Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticIsGood View Post
The original circuit does the job, which is to keep the battery charged. The modifications, if they work, cannot keep the battery more charged, or change the maximum current available from the alternator. It's unlikely that the modified circuit would do its job more reliably, although it is possible that the circuit itself could be more durable. So what would "better" mean?

There is some possibility that it places less of a load on the engine in some circumstances. Are you going to be entering an endurance race? Do you mind if the bike blows up the day after?

A fire between your legs at 150kph on a busy road is really scary. Unless the modification has been proven, or you are prepared to do a lot of thorough testing and measuring, stick with the original version.
Thank's for explanation
I'll go with first circuit then
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Old 24th August 2012, 01:58 PM   #9
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a useful site about shunt regulators

SHUNT REGULATOR for motorcycle
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