I'm looking for a pair of really good headphones, but it seems to me that most of them does not measure or sound neutral.... the all seems to have their own kind of flavour.
The most "high-end" headphone I have is Sennheiser HD600. Its nice, but lacks bass in my opinion, and there is a little too much around 4 kHz.
Actually, I like my Beyerdynamic DT770 better, because the bass is more solid.
I've heard:
HD650.... didnt like it, the top end of the HD600 is better.
Grado GS1000i. Horrible tonal balance ... yuck
20 year old Beyerdynamic DT990. Quite nice.. a little sag in the midrange maybe, and peaky treble.
Any recommendations?
The most "high-end" headphone I have is Sennheiser HD600. Its nice, but lacks bass in my opinion, and there is a little too much around 4 kHz.
Actually, I like my Beyerdynamic DT770 better, because the bass is more solid.
I've heard:
HD650.... didnt like it, the top end of the HD600 is better.
Grado GS1000i. Horrible tonal balance ... yuck
20 year old Beyerdynamic DT990. Quite nice.. a little sag in the midrange maybe, and peaky treble.
Any recommendations?
HD600 lacking bass? I work in the headphone audio area and have done for years, I have heard and owned many headphones, I currently own 7 pairs (oops 6, sold the denons)and often get sent them to recable for balanced systems. after all of that, I still own and love my HD600. When driven properly, lacking bass is not a word I would use, not even close, tiny bit rolled top octave, but bass? not a chance, you have an issue somewhere else in the chain.
if you just want more bass, thats cool, but anything more than they already have is not neutral.
what is your budget? its possible to get the bass you want you will have to go with sealed, are you ready for the smaller soundstage this will provide? HE6 are excellent, but expensive and require a fair chunk of current to drive, the rare sony R1, or DX1000 are bass beasts.
if you can give me a price range i'm sure I can help you out and yeah if you could describe exactly what it is about the hd600 bass you find lacking that would help me to understand
agreed about the gs1000 and PS1000, those things are a joke for a supposed reference headphone, the only grados i've enjoyed have been the MS pro and I still found the top end too hot/fatiguing for any length of time
any particular favored music genre you listen to a lot? or a bit of everything?
if you just want more bass, thats cool, but anything more than they already have is not neutral.
what is your budget? its possible to get the bass you want you will have to go with sealed, are you ready for the smaller soundstage this will provide? HE6 are excellent, but expensive and require a fair chunk of current to drive, the rare sony R1, or DX1000 are bass beasts.
if you can give me a price range i'm sure I can help you out and yeah if you could describe exactly what it is about the hd600 bass you find lacking that would help me to understand
agreed about the gs1000 and PS1000, those things are a joke for a supposed reference headphone, the only grados i've enjoyed have been the MS pro and I still found the top end too hot/fatiguing for any length of time
any particular favored music genre you listen to a lot? or a bit of everything?
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Measurements....
In my world, this is rolled-off bass.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
In my world, this is rolled-off bass.
only IEMs give good seal for "real bass" - and even that is somewhat unsatisfying - more than just the ears get involved for the lowest octaves - "butt kickers" may be crude but they do add some of the needed body clues for deepest bass
headphones are often "diffuse field" EQed by construction - perfectly flat sounds wrong with recordings intended for loudspeaker/room playback
the Smyth SVS Realizer is an interesting way to get loudspeaker/room sound from headphones
www.smyth-research.com
headphones are often "diffuse field" EQed by construction - perfectly flat sounds wrong with recordings intended for loudspeaker/room playback
the Smyth SVS Realizer is an interesting way to get loudspeaker/room sound from headphones
www.smyth-research.com
StigErik
Just as you, I also use the DT770Pro, which is a marvel, when it comes to closed headphones. Though it is definitely "sounded" and not really neutral. I find my old DT880 Studio (600 Ohms) much more neutral and ofcourse with a broader soundstage and more open highs. I compared it with several current Sennheisers, including the HD800 and cannot find a reason for replacement. And the DT990 never came near the 880Studio, in my opinion.
Another option to consider are the Stax headphones. I use the cheapest old SR40 modell on the lowly Stax adaptor, driven with a little T-amp and these sound great, considering their cheap secondhand price. But there bass won't be strong enough foryour liking, I think.
One of the better, more current Staxes would be the only contender (for me, at least) to once replace the DT880Studio, because the Staxes are simply stunningly fast.
Just my 2Cents...
Just as you, I also use the DT770Pro, which is a marvel, when it comes to closed headphones. Though it is definitely "sounded" and not really neutral. I find my old DT880 Studio (600 Ohms) much more neutral and ofcourse with a broader soundstage and more open highs. I compared it with several current Sennheisers, including the HD800 and cannot find a reason for replacement. And the DT990 never came near the 880Studio, in my opinion.
Another option to consider are the Stax headphones. I use the cheapest old SR40 modell on the lowly Stax adaptor, driven with a little T-amp and these sound great, considering their cheap secondhand price. But there bass won't be strong enough foryour liking, I think.
One of the better, more current Staxes would be the only contender (for me, at least) to once replace the DT880Studio, because the Staxes are simply stunningly fast.
Just my 2Cents...
I once started on a quest to find my ideal headphones, and auditioned many pairs, with basically money no object (those were the days!). As you say, each type seemed to have its own characteristics, none of which I liked at all. Not just frequency response, it seemed to me, but something to do with how they handled dynamics.
In the end I decided to try making some of my own, and started by buying a pair of big, cheapish Philips, intending to use them as the donor 'housings'. Instead, I was pleasantly surprised to find that they were superb! Exactly what I was looking for sound-wise. Really, really good. I liked them so much that I bought another two pairs just to be on the safe side. The weird thing, however, was that the two new pairs sounded completely different, and different to each other. One of them was so harsh I could hardly listen to them. Just cheapo headphones, but it did make me wonder whether headphones suffer from more 'piece-to-piece' variation than, say, speakers.
I later bought some much more up-market Philips headphones, but still based on similar transducers. They were terrible! All bass and treble with nothing in between. I sent them back.
In the end I decided to try making some of my own, and started by buying a pair of big, cheapish Philips, intending to use them as the donor 'housings'. Instead, I was pleasantly surprised to find that they were superb! Exactly what I was looking for sound-wise. Really, really good. I liked them so much that I bought another two pairs just to be on the safe side. The weird thing, however, was that the two new pairs sounded completely different, and different to each other. One of them was so harsh I could hardly listen to them. Just cheapo headphones, but it did make me wonder whether headphones suffer from more 'piece-to-piece' variation than, say, speakers.
I later bought some much more up-market Philips headphones, but still based on similar transducers. They were terrible! All bass and treble with nothing in between. I sent them back.
I would hope the big brands keep a tight control on their production lines, like SEAS does for the Excel series.. The thing is, it's very difficult to really love headphones when you listen to dipole speakers every day.. 
there use to be some good earbuds in the past, cheap, like the Sony MDR 71SL.
there use to be some good earbuds in the past, cheap, like the Sony MDR 71SL.
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I think that you should look at orthodynamic headphones if you want bass extension. These drivers need to be choked of air to reduce the bass relative to the treble. The drivers in the Fostex T20rp and T50rp (same drivers) are great and can easily be tuned to have wonderfully flat (an fast) bass extension.
Up the top end I don't think that you can escape EQ if you want neutrality. It's not possible to tune a headphone to match the HRTFs of different people. Our ears put different loads on the acoustic chamber.
Up the top end I don't think that you can escape EQ if you want neutrality. It's not possible to tune a headphone to match the HRTFs of different people. Our ears put different loads on the acoustic chamber.
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