Oh? Given that most are listening to MP3 sources I'd say they're missing at least everything under 100hz and anything over 10khz...a shame considering their hearing is so much better than mine at this age
Hi-Fi started dying as a useful term when every old console in the 50s and 60s was branded as Hi-Fi and then again in the 70s when Bose set new low-water marks in Hi-Fidelity for the masses..something they continue to propagate with their new kitchen counter friendly units....in the world of Hi-Fidelity those with the biggest marketing budgets win! Anyone hear of, or remember Nuance loudspeakers? The ultimate low-fi dressed up as Hi-Fi!
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yeah well not everyone is so white bread, head-fi is currently the worlds largest audio forum and lossless ALAC or FLAC are the norm, with possibly 320kbs for some small portable convenience devices like cellphones. over there many are spending at least as much on headphones as speakers with systems up to 25-50k but most spending, using computer as source spend around 500-750 for an outboard dac, about the same on amps and owning multiple pairs of headphones between 250-1500 a pair and let me tell you, with a 3k headphone rig you get some pretty serious sound.
even in the portable arena people are using a battery powered solid state transport like an ipod, iphone or iriver feeding digital to a dac, the best of which are balanced and then feeding balanced solid state and some hybrid vacuum state amps and either fullsize headphones, or in ear musicians monitors with 4-8 drivers per ear and passive, or in some cases active digital 3 and 4 way crossovers, tuned to give you what is called 'ear flat' audio. they use a dummy head and your custom molded monitors to create a phase accurate digital XO profile which is loaded in the memory of a 6 channel crystal semi based portable dac with multichannel amp! this is all set up specifically for each owner, nobody else can use your monitors and you cant use any other monitors on it. about 3k all up for that setup
this rivals seriously treated audio rooms, the room is taken out of the equation
sure some kids do it for the bass boost, but they are not the majority
even an ipad directly feeding my jh13 monitors or using a small low outputZ low gain amp via the line out is pretty impressive
even in the portable arena people are using a battery powered solid state transport like an ipod, iphone or iriver feeding digital to a dac, the best of which are balanced and then feeding balanced solid state and some hybrid vacuum state amps and either fullsize headphones, or in ear musicians monitors with 4-8 drivers per ear and passive, or in some cases active digital 3 and 4 way crossovers, tuned to give you what is called 'ear flat' audio. they use a dummy head and your custom molded monitors to create a phase accurate digital XO profile which is loaded in the memory of a 6 channel crystal semi based portable dac with multichannel amp! this is all set up specifically for each owner, nobody else can use your monitors and you cant use any other monitors on it. about 3k all up for that setup
this rivals seriously treated audio rooms, the room is taken out of the equation
sure some kids do it for the bass boost, but they are not the majority
even an ipad directly feeding my jh13 monitors or using a small low outputZ low gain amp via the line out is pretty impressive
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At a recent HiFi show I was surprised to see how many exhibitors had resorted to using the ipod as a source to demonstrate their equipment. Even until the recent past vinyl played on all manner of exotic turntables were used together with tube amps to lend an air of superiority.
It was this year that many demonstrators were playing what could be considered ''safe'' music and my response to this was just to turn around and walk straight out. On the few occasions that I managed to push them to play some really dynamic music the speakers would reveal their inadequacies especially in the bass. The sound would fall apart.
On the question of AV, a company proud of its reputation of supplying speakers to the Pro recording market and to which the quality was always quite impressive in the past, had given a demonstration that was just all wrong in its balance and when I tried to explain these deficiencies to the person controlling admission to the demo he just did not want to know. The same feeling of lacklustre was also evident in their other listening rooms.
The Audio Note demonstration was one of the very few up to standard as well as another company that has been around for six years but had only heard of this year. Every thing was right about them whether classical or Rock and well worth the seven grand asking price. Another company was very good in the midrange and treble area but unfortunately not the bass.
This year had been the biggest surprise in terms of the retrograde direction in quality, even more so than the suspicion that the Ipod generation are no longer able to mix.
I have heard CDs that sound identical to the same album on vinyl and also CDs that are superior and also worse than vinyl. It must be down to the final mix.
It was this year that many demonstrators were playing what could be considered ''safe'' music and my response to this was just to turn around and walk straight out. On the few occasions that I managed to push them to play some really dynamic music the speakers would reveal their inadequacies especially in the bass. The sound would fall apart.
On the question of AV, a company proud of its reputation of supplying speakers to the Pro recording market and to which the quality was always quite impressive in the past, had given a demonstration that was just all wrong in its balance and when I tried to explain these deficiencies to the person controlling admission to the demo he just did not want to know. The same feeling of lacklustre was also evident in their other listening rooms.
The Audio Note demonstration was one of the very few up to standard as well as another company that has been around for six years but had only heard of this year. Every thing was right about them whether classical or Rock and well worth the seven grand asking price. Another company was very good in the midrange and treble area but unfortunately not the bass.
This year had been the biggest surprise in terms of the retrograde direction in quality, even more so than the suspicion that the Ipod generation are no longer able to mix.
I have heard CDs that sound identical to the same album on vinyl and also CDs that are superior and also worse than vinyl. It must be down to the final mix.
How about amplifier quality? In my experience this hasnt improved at all the last 30 or 40 years. Not that I exist that long, but my old mcintosh sounds much better than most of the other reasonably affordable amps. You'd expect quality would go to lower cost amps over the years. Why is that not happening? Or am I just plain wrong?
Mcintosh is a very good amp most affordable amps arent , i think the problem with affordable amps is crapy components and undersized power supplys , my arcam after recaping including power supply capacitors sounds so much better and effortless. It´s not only the companies to blame the consumers also want the cheap stuff and those who want the best gear most of the times get ripped off
The problem is then than that quality hasn't improved because component manufacturers just found cheaper ways to make components, not very focused on improving quality, rather compromising it. And that is because people are satisfied with the cheap and smaller stuff.
Marketing should find a new word for HIFI so they can promote quality again
How about chip amps, they are getting better I guess? Will they / have they surpassed my mcintosh?
Marketing should find a new word for HIFI so they can promote quality again
How about chip amps, they are getting better I guess? Will they / have they surpassed my mcintosh?
It's not a matter of frequency , but how the lossy compression actuates it ;Oh? Given that most are listening to MP3 sources I'd say they're missing at least everything under 100hz and anything over 10khz...a shame considering their hearing is so much better than mine at this age
indeed , signals present on the record that are peculiar for the ear/brain to elaborate are in the -60dB range , and they are the 'ambient' , reflected sound of the instruments that are captioned by the mic . They'll be cut off inelegantly by the compression . This in not valid for synthetic sounds that are already avulsed from real world .
Marketing should find a new word for HIFI so they can promote quality again
isnt that hi end ?
Yes..loss and signal compression are significant issues...but I rather doubt that even with a relatively lossless format that those cheap little earbuds could reproduce anything under 200hz...
It seems most people these use the word "audiophile" rather than "hifi", as in "audiophile speakers" or "audiophile cryo'd cables". Most of the gadget blogs have a tag for "audiophile" but not "hifi". As others have said here, the most popular domain of audiophile gear recently is headphones. Ten years ago few audiophiles took headphones seriously, but now that kids spend easily on headphones the scene has changed.
Hifi has not really been popular (at least in North America) since the 70s, AFAIK. Back then, the difference between a poor quality vinyl front end and, say, a Linn Sondek, was night and day. The difference between an iPod and some cost-no-object-DAC is much smaller. Even cheap speakers are much more neutral than those of many years ago.
Some of the biggest benefits of a true high-end hifi system, such as flat spectrum and realistic soundstaging, are largely only attainable with good recordings and careful speaker setup in an acoustically suitable room. Coupled with the cost of high end gear, it's not surprising that people aren't rushing to become "audiophiles".
I agree with qusp about the advantages and concomitant popularity of headphones. For not much money, and without burden of listening room setup, you can get most of the benefits of a true hifi stereo speaker system. It's how I do most of my music listening.
Hifi has not really been popular (at least in North America) since the 70s, AFAIK. Back then, the difference between a poor quality vinyl front end and, say, a Linn Sondek, was night and day. The difference between an iPod and some cost-no-object-DAC is much smaller. Even cheap speakers are much more neutral than those of many years ago.
Some of the biggest benefits of a true high-end hifi system, such as flat spectrum and realistic soundstaging, are largely only attainable with good recordings and careful speaker setup in an acoustically suitable room. Coupled with the cost of high end gear, it's not surprising that people aren't rushing to become "audiophiles".
I agree with qusp about the advantages and concomitant popularity of headphones. For not much money, and without burden of listening room setup, you can get most of the benefits of a true hifi stereo speaker system. It's how I do most of my music listening.
With the headphones on your head ...
The fact is when you listen to the music with HP you loose another important
organ of perception : the sight . You cannot make materialize the orchestra or whatever in front of you and follow the progress of it in time and space .
The 'body' of the music gets lost also , because if the space is negated , there's no unwinding of the musical texture . And the eye also cannot place properly where it originates from .
Maybe I should have posted this on Godzilla's thread ..
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/213111-listening-loud-music-linked.html
The fact is when you listen to the music with HP you loose another important
organ of perception : the sight . You cannot make materialize the orchestra or whatever in front of you and follow the progress of it in time and space .
The 'body' of the music gets lost also , because if the space is negated , there's no unwinding of the musical texture . And the eye also cannot place properly where it originates from .
Maybe I should have posted this on Godzilla's thread ..
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/213111-listening-loud-music-linked.html
@picowallspeaker , i agree with you
i like headphones when you dont wont to bother neighboors cause it´s 3 am and because headphones give the best "stereo" possible independent of the room , but for people like me that listen at higher levels HP are not an option unless you want to be def or get a headache
i like that rock concert feeling like the band is playing in front of you , not inside my head , only speakers can do that
i like headphones when you dont wont to bother neighboors cause it´s 3 am and because headphones give the best "stereo" possible independent of the room , but for people like me that listen at higher levels HP are not an option unless you want to be def or get a headache
i like that rock concert feeling like the band is playing in front of you , not inside my head , only speakers can do that
I prefer speakers for listening to music, too, especially when realistic volumes are possible. However, I live in an apartment, and I got tired of my neighbors always complaining about noise! So on speakers I listen only to classical and other music with little bass content, while for electronic music I pretty much have to use headphones.
When people talk about hifi/audiophile vs standard gear, one often hears mention of the ability of the former gear to render heretofore inaudible details such as mixing errors, shuffling feet in the studio, etc. A good headphone setup can certainly make such details obvious (a feature that many dislike). Speakers setups can do this, too, but as you mention they ultimately provide a more realistic presentation of the recording, one that can often be more musically involving. It's good to have both options, IMO.
When people talk about hifi/audiophile vs standard gear, one often hears mention of the ability of the former gear to render heretofore inaudible details such as mixing errors, shuffling feet in the studio, etc. A good headphone setup can certainly make such details obvious (a feature that many dislike). Speakers setups can do this, too, but as you mention they ultimately provide a more realistic presentation of the recording, one that can often be more musically involving. It's good to have both options, IMO.
"outside of your head" virtualizaion for headphones is available
Smyth SVS Realizer is a "virtualizer" system for headphone listening that reproduces a loudspeaker & room - up to 7.1 multichannel
you calibrate in a real room, measuring your personal HRTF at a number of angles - has head angle tracking sensor
also measures, compensates for your headphones
gives a very impressive sense of listening to external sound, fixed in space, reproducing the loudspeaker & room sound
way better than Dolby Headphone processing - it is calibrated to you and a real system - head tracking is critical to fix the image as external - no system that doesn't have head tracking can compare
you can "collect" good loudspeaker & room calibrations anywhere you can get ~ 1/2 hr access
Smyth SVS Realizer is a "virtualizer" system for headphone listening that reproduces a loudspeaker & room - up to 7.1 multichannel
you calibrate in a real room, measuring your personal HRTF at a number of angles - has head angle tracking sensor
also measures, compensates for your headphones
gives a very impressive sense of listening to external sound, fixed in space, reproducing the loudspeaker & room sound
way better than Dolby Headphone processing - it is calibrated to you and a real system - head tracking is critical to fix the image as external - no system that doesn't have head tracking can compare
you can "collect" good loudspeaker & room calibrations anywhere you can get ~ 1/2 hr access
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i'm thinking a few people here need to try some of the newer headphone technologies. is the soundstage as wide as speakers? no.... is the imaging, detail and immediacy 10x better than any speaker? yes indeed. is it possible to have an out of the head sound-field/experience with headphones? absolutely yes. just standard headphones here, no DSP. once DSP is added the lines are blurred even further
Just by reading the comments, which are stereotypical non-headphone users cliches i'm sorry to say; it sounds like few of you have actually heard a decent headphone system, yet seem thoroughly convinced of their inadequacies.
definitely best to have both, as each have their strengths, but if I could only have one system in the real world, it would be my headphone system. the real world is inconvenient, the real world is noisy, the real world does not contain the perfect room, the real world imposes limits on size and budget. headphones side step most of this. of course i've spent the last 18 months building a near/mid-field active 3 way digitally crossed speaker system too for the times I can get away with it, but even with all the money and time spent, I expect there will be areas my headphones outperform them. this is a Volt, Scanspeak and AudioTechnology system in the works
I mentioned the realizer in my first post; and the JH3A (both ignored), I think its more convenient for people to believe that the soundstage is somehow attached to the room
Just by reading the comments, which are stereotypical non-headphone users cliches i'm sorry to say; it sounds like few of you have actually heard a decent headphone system, yet seem thoroughly convinced of their inadequacies.
definitely best to have both, as each have their strengths, but if I could only have one system in the real world, it would be my headphone system. the real world is inconvenient, the real world is noisy, the real world does not contain the perfect room, the real world imposes limits on size and budget. headphones side step most of this. of course i've spent the last 18 months building a near/mid-field active 3 way digitally crossed speaker system too for the times I can get away with it, but even with all the money and time spent, I expect there will be areas my headphones outperform them. this is a Volt, Scanspeak and AudioTechnology system in the works
I mentioned the realizer in my first post; and the JH3A (both ignored), I think its more convenient for people to believe that the soundstage is somehow attached to the room
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qusp, as always, it's a matter of what you like. A few weekends ago, I had the chance to spend a lot of time with five figure headphone amps and a selection of some of the most exotic and coveted headphones available, and my own source material. Very nice, but the experience still left me blah. I can't point to one thing and say, "That's it! That's why I don't like headphones," but nonetheless, I didn't get the covetous feeling I get after hearing some amazing loudspeakers.
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