Working with Electronics

[Apogee]

What ever happened to common sense?

IF SOMETHING IS PLUGGED IN, OF COURSE YOU CAN GET SHOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!

I think what Grey wrote could be summarized by simply saying "be careful but don't be paranoid of getting shocked."

I don't feel he was cavalier in any way shape or form. Rather, I feel his view was realistic. I too have been zapped many times and am still here to talk about it. Am I being cavalier? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Was I being intentionally careless? NO!

Sometimes it just happens... I agree that in a perfect world it shouldn't, but I also know that when working on equipment with the power on sometimes you get zapped...

I think Grey's assessment in the other thread was honest and realistic. I think it is inappropriate for anyone to be sinbinned because they state their real life experiences.

I would also challenge anyone who actually works on this stuff FOR REAL to say that they've never been zapped. If they say they haven't, either they're lying or they've never actually touched a piece of gear with the power on... (or they live in a rubber bubble)...

I didn't view what was written as cavalier in any way shape or form. It was honest and simply said be careful but not over the edge paranoid. It's reactions like what has happened that create paranoia and discourage others from learning... It also drives good people away from the forum. "Geez maybe I shouldn't take the cover off because I might get hurt..." "I'll just stick with what the manufacturer put in because I'm sure they knew best..."

I wonder how far Ben Franklin or Thomas Edison would have gotten if they were worried about being zapped or were over the edge paranoid about being sued???

Just imagine if everyone on this forum obeyed the "Danger, high voltage inside. No user serviceable parts inside" stickers that are placed on every piece of store bought equipment. How far would the DIY hifi forum be then?

IF YOU'RE WORKING ON SOMETHING AND DON'T KNOW WHERE THE VOLTAGES ARE YOU SHOULDN'T BE WORKING ON IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!! USE A METER AND CHECK! IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE, BUY ONE! IF YOU CAN'T GRASP THIS CONCEPT, TAKE UP ANOTHER HOBBY!

The McDonald's analogy was a very good one. An idiot goes and buys a hot cup of coffee, puts it in his (or her) lap then sues when they get burned. PERHAPS THEY LEARNED THEIR LESSON AND WON'T PUT A HOT CUP OF COFFEE THERE NEXT TIME... I have zero sympathy for the fool. The judge should have locked that person up for being an idiot!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel Grey actually contributes worthwhile stuff to this forum (including bits of learned wisdom) and his substance to noise ratio is significantly lower than many others on this forum including most of those who were challenging him. The holyer than thou attitude of the others posting was simply a bunch of bull. If those that were disagreeing actually think that they're preventing anyone from accidentally killing themselves then they are truly living in a fantasy world... Further, I request that they STOP WASTING MY TIME FROM BEING FORCED TO WADE THROUGH PAGES OF NOTHINGNESS...

I feel in this case his being binned was inappropriate. He stated personal experience (which I happen to agree with and my experience mirrors) and nothing more.

Perhaps all those who are afraid of getting shocked should take up scuba diving only in salt water, that way they can be assured that they have good ground contact at all times...

Sorry Rod but give me a break! And yes, I'm frustrated!

This is an electronics board after all...

[Jocko Homo]

I burned a hole in a finger once......in a high voltage supply.....that had been off for almost a year.

If some idiot had not removed the bleeder resistor, I would not have been burned as I picked it up to move it. It also would have helped if the same guy had not removed the screws holding the capacitor in question, so that it was free to give me a surprise.

Takes a long time for 4 KV to lose its charge.

I guess that I should be sinbined for relating my personal experiences, if your point is valid. And I didn't retire, double sinbin sentence then, I guess.

Jocko

[SY]

The fool you have to have sympathy for is the one at the wrong end of a lawyer. You may not like that we all have to be ultraparanoid lest we be financially ruined to pay for braces for some attorney's 12 year old daughter, but that's the world we're living in.

Yes, I've gotten zapped. It was not pleasant. I lived. Not everyone else does. I cringe every time I see a note from someone who has little experience, but wants to build a tube circuit carrying potentially lethal voltages.

Safety is NOT a matter for debate.

BE PARANOID ABOUT BEING SHOCKED!!!

[till]

I wonder how far Ben Franklin or Thomas Edison would have gotten if they were worried about being zapped or were over the edge paranoid about being sued???

good point. To me sinbinning grey looks ridicolous. Because i´m from old europe?

[Jocko Homo]

Ben Franklin and Tom Edison didn't have to worry about being sued.

Lucky buggers.............

SY......let me guess....duty awakens you. Your points are well taken. We should not encourage the newbies to be cavalier, if for no other reason that we want them to be around long enough to no longer be considered newbies.

Jocko

[SY]

No, getting ready to hike the Rollye Wiskerson Trail at dawn awakens me.

[kelticwizard]

Originally posted by Apogee

...I wonder how far Ben Franklin or Thomas Edison would have gotten if they were worried about being zapped or were over the edge paranoid about being sued???

Are you advocating that we tell people to start flying kites in lightning storms? Indeed, the humorous expression "Go fly a kite" is roughly equivalent to "Go jump in the lake", or "Why don't you take a nice, long walk off a short pier?".

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Apogee

....Just imagine if everyone on this forum obeyed the "Danger, high voltage inside. No user serviceable parts inside" stickers that are placed on every piece of store bought equipment. How far would the DIY hifi forum be then?

IF YOU'RE WORKING ON SOMETHING AND DON'T KNOW WHERE THE VOLTAGES ARE YOU SHOULDN'T BE WORKING ON IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!! USE A METER AND CHECK! IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE, BUY ONE! IF YOU CAN'T GRASP THIS CONCEPT, TAKE UP ANOTHER HOBBY!

Tell that to the mother of the 13 year old who raves on at the dinner table about the great guys on this forum who answer Emails and who are helping him build a big super amp for his stereo to impress his friends.

All the beginner's books tell you to discharge high voltage capacitors as a matter of principle. Why the objection to insisting on this non-controversial rule? Even if Grey knows that it isn't necessary in this particular application, he must know that the principle itself is a good one to follow.

Originally posted by Apogee
I feel Grey actually contributes worthwhile stuff to this forum (including bits of learned wisdom)...

I cannot possibly agree with you more. Grey is absolutely one of the best on this forum, and surely one of those who must get credited with building this forum up to what it is today.

So nobody's perfect.

[jackinnj]

Originally posted by Jocko Homo
I burned a hole in a finger once......in a high voltage supply.....that had been off for almost a year.
Jocko

The "Doorknob" capacitors used in tube TV's can hold a charge for a very long time.

I think you can tell from thos of us who write on this BB those of us who have had our close experiences with destiny and now operate with a certain paranoia (SY - le bon mot award) when opening up a supply.

[SY]

That was Apogee's bon mot. He meant it pejoratively, I mean it as a virtue.

[jam]

Fellow members,

The whole issue is centered around one statement,

"Solid state voltages aren't high enough to worry about."

That one statement is irresponsible, and sends the wrong message especially someone new in this hobby.

No one is trying to hassle Grey, but there a lot of newbies on this forum that have no idea how dangerous electricity can be.

Grey sould have said that he made a mistake and pointed out that proper precautions should be observed when working on electrical equipment, and not try to say that it was no big deal.

So stop trying to make this a personality issue. I have worked at servel places in the industry that would have fired me for having Grey"s attitude about safety. If one of you have seen someone nearly die of an electrical shock you will know what I mean, it's not funny.

Please read the posted links and research the dangers of electric shock and precautions you should take when working on electrical equipment.

Regards,
Jam