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Old 17th January 2002, 10:57 PM   #1
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Thumbs down Bob Carver's Amazing Ego and Greed...

Amazing that it took Carver to think of putting a pre-amplifier and a power amplifier in one box and voila, you have an Integrated amp. Check it out...


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Old 18th January 2002, 12:15 AM   #2
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Default Bob Carvers Ego

There was a number of patents on "Tracking Power Supplies" back in the Seventies, long before Carver's.
Patent #4115739was a very clever one back in 1978. Also the "Bash Indigo Patents", used by Velodyne and Klipsh are similar.
Also Carver seemed to make a few mistakes in his drawings, by design or not I don't know. Look at drawing 6C,6D,in Patent #6166,605. Looks like it wasn't Carver's idea after all.
Here are some more Patents related to the subject.


There's a few more but this will give you the general idea.
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Old 18th January 2002, 04:31 PM   #3
Eric is offline Eric  United States
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HifiNut: Welcome to diyAudio!

It was my impression that it was Harman (of Harman-Kardon fame) that first suggested/implemented the integrated amplifier in the late 1950s.

On a different note, I'm having trouble understanding how talking about Bob Carver and others' impressions of his ego or greed is relevant to a DIY site... I would rather not see this site stoop to the level of posts that aboud on other forums. Just my opinion...
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Old 18th January 2002, 08:37 PM   #4
arnach is offline arnach  United States
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Default hmm...

I would have to agree with Eric. Hifinut, this is your first post, and it is off topic. Can't we confine non-DIY material to the general asylum at the other site I have seen you at?

-- Arnach
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Old 18th January 2002, 09:47 PM   #5
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Hi fellas,

Thanks for the welcome and...

Your point is well taken. I should've thought about this one before I hit the <submit> button. My sincere apologies to all.


Which forum would that be? I haven't posted much on any of the forums actually. Perhaps there is another HifiNut running around?


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Old 19th January 2002, 04:18 AM   #6
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I honestly dont know how the patent office could have given him a patent for some of these things .... he has patents on 1. using a subwoofer in an enclosure less than 1 cu. ft. 2. cutting a hole in an enclosure to facilitate the insertion of a woofer into the box... i mean how can someone patent cutting a hole in a piece of wood?!? he also has many other totally stupid patents......
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Old 23rd January 2002, 11:49 PM   #7
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HiFi Nut:

I think your topic is definitely of interest to the audio hobbyist and should not be considered off-topic, especially in the "Everything Else" section.

I must disagree with you, however, about the idea that Bob Carver is trying to patent the "integrated amplifier". I went to the other forum you mentioned in your first post, and got a link to Carver's integrated amplifier. Here it is:

Most amplifiers seem to be composed of two sections: the power supply and the amplifier section. In most amplifiers, the power supply produces a steady DC current, + or - 30 volts or whatever. It stays more or less steady, regardless of what the audio signal does. This steady voltage is fed to the amplifier section, which varies up and down with the audio signal.

Carver's integrated amplifier varies up and down with the audio signal. This is a big difference from most amplifiers' design.
In addition, mention is made of pulses, which usually don't exist in common amplifier design, unless you are talking about the rectified waveform, which I don't think Carver is in this patent.

I realize that certain Class A amps also vary the power supply with audio signal to some extent. As you may have guessed, I am not that well versed in amplifier design to say whether or not his design is so very different from these other manufacturers. But it might be. From your post, I would get the idea that Carver was trying to patent putting the preamp and the amp together in one unit, which he is not trying to do.

It looks to me that Carver's design might well be unique enough to merit a patent. At any rate, it looks like it might be a close, arguable thing.

I have not read the patent on speaker/enclosure for the Sunfire subwoofer. Most of the consternation seems to be about those patents. But the amplifier patent, at first glance, does not appear to be a gross miscarriage, at least that I can see.
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Old 24th January 2002, 07:12 PM   #8
Wizard of Kelts
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In the above quote: "Carver's integrated amplifier varies up and down with the audio signal. This is a big difference from most amplifiers' design."

Please change that to read "Carver's integrated amplifier HAS A POWER SUPPLY THAT varies up and down with the audio signal. This is a big difference from most amplifiers' design. "

I was trying to illustrate that Carver was trying to patent a fairly unique to type of integrated amplifier, not all preamp/amp combinations.

LOL, the "post editing time limit" nailed me again.
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Old 6th February 2002, 03:47 PM   #9
dice45 is offline dice45  Germany
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Default On patents ....

Hello all,

usually i do not join threads like this and i did not bother to dig into the patents to observe how someone got a patent unjustified or how he goofed ot how he cheated or whatever.

Just want to remind that patents ore often written by patent lawyers with the intention not to lie about the subject but to stray sand in the eyes of the reader, to distract his focus on unimportancies, to make him draw wrong conclusions. So it is with the drawings. Got quite some experience with that {sigh}.
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