GRollins said:
Well, we get angry because we know for a fact that people are charging this ridiculous prices for a "audiophile" mains cable... usually supported by claims based on thin air. Again, you could build (or buy for that matter) a very, very nice mains cable with RF filter included for about $20.
You're right, it's not my money, so why should i care? Because i feel like people are being ripped off. If you decide you want a quality cable, and that it makes a audible difference on your system, by all means, buy it! Just know there's no magic to a cable, and ANY benefit you can get from an $800 mains cable can be get for a tiny fraction of that. It really hurts to see people throwing that kind of money away when you could get a decent new pair of sepakers, a new amp or whatever for the same ammount.
Someone brought quantum physics and Gallileo to the picture... of course, there's a lot of phisical phenomena that we're not (yet
) aware about, specially on the quantum field. But don't loose your focus, we're talking about a MAINS cable. A 2 - 3 meter cable that does nothing more than carrying the mains voltage to your amp. My mind is open to new ideas and concepts; but we're not "threatened" because we feel that a mains cable has no effect on the audio reproduction of an amp. Again, i have my reserves on interconnects, but this is a *MAINS* cable...Paul,
We're in agreement on the monetary part of things.
<i>All</i> pricing is based on psychology. Supply and demand (in the sense of Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations) are psychological concepts based on perceived need (even such fundamentals as food and shelter--you could live in a forest in a lean-to shack, but even the poorest people would prefer not to, just as they would prefer not to eat, say, dogs or mice for nutrition [yes, I'm aware that other cultures feel differently about what constitutes good eating--you catch my drift, though]).
My feeling is that the pricing on cables (all cables, not just power cables) is <i>way</i> out of whack. Sooner or later, the bubble bursts, and prices tumble. Witness the rather grisly end of the "Dot-com boom" that has brought so many people to their knees. I am hoping that the excesses in cable pricing correct in the near future, as I am weary of reading of wires that cost as much as I make in six months.
For me, the issue of pricing (which I am completely against--hopefully that's clear to everyone by now) is a separate question from the sound quality one. My approach is to look at how they're contructed and try to decide if I can do it for $5. The Nordost approach seems a bit beyond anything I can rig here at Chez Bear, but these various twisting strategies? Fer cryin' out loud, a child can do that. At least as of a couple of years ago, I was amused to see that kids still do Jacob's Ladders, Cats' Cradles, and other such stunts with string. I can't see that anyone who can master such a thing couldn't also assemble their own cables. Just watch out for the highly capacitive/inductive braids. Other than that, it's good, cheap entertainment. Surely more intellectually stimulating than another night in front of the television...
Grey
We're in agreement on the monetary part of things.
<i>All</i> pricing is based on psychology. Supply and demand (in the sense of Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations) are psychological concepts based on perceived need (even such fundamentals as food and shelter--you could live in a forest in a lean-to shack, but even the poorest people would prefer not to, just as they would prefer not to eat, say, dogs or mice for nutrition [yes, I'm aware that other cultures feel differently about what constitutes good eating--you catch my drift, though]).
My feeling is that the pricing on cables (all cables, not just power cables) is <i>way</i> out of whack. Sooner or later, the bubble bursts, and prices tumble. Witness the rather grisly end of the "Dot-com boom" that has brought so many people to their knees. I am hoping that the excesses in cable pricing correct in the near future, as I am weary of reading of wires that cost as much as I make in six months.
For me, the issue of pricing (which I am completely against--hopefully that's clear to everyone by now) is a separate question from the sound quality one. My approach is to look at how they're contructed and try to decide if I can do it for $5. The Nordost approach seems a bit beyond anything I can rig here at Chez Bear, but these various twisting strategies? Fer cryin' out loud, a child can do that. At least as of a couple of years ago, I was amused to see that kids still do Jacob's Ladders, Cats' Cradles, and other such stunts with string. I can't see that anyone who can master such a thing couldn't also assemble their own cables. Just watch out for the highly capacitive/inductive braids. Other than that, it's good, cheap entertainment. Surely more intellectually stimulating than another night in front of the television...
Grey
Guys:
Joseph didn't ask what anyone thought about it, he asked if anyone knew something in particular about it. Some of you guys jumped him and basically told him he was full of crap. Thats not what this place is about, is it? Can't we express our beliefs free from persecution, or do we have to have someone elses crammed down our throat? You guys are seriously out to set someone straight who doesn't share your beliefs.
Joseph didn't ask what anyone thought about it, he asked if anyone knew something in particular about it. Some of you guys jumped him and basically told him he was full of crap. Thats not what this place is about, is it? Can't we express our beliefs free from persecution, or do we have to have someone elses crammed down our throat? You guys are seriously out to set someone straight who doesn't share your beliefs.
JohnR said:
Sorry, i missed this one
Well, the peak/average current ratio depends primarily on the type of amp and wattage. Class-A amps f.ex. draw almost constant current from the mains, while B, A-B and other bizarre topologies can vary a lot.. how much i really can't tell, but i imagine, as you, it'd be quite high.
Now, yes, there'd be a reduction in resistance, but i don't beleive it would be very significant (don't forget you still have the transformer secondary, all the wiring in your house AND the conection to the power central in series with that
). It WOULD be a more relailable connection, and that's a good thing.
Hi Lisandro, but it would be measurable, right?
Can we try some numbers? I am curious to see what you or haldor would think of them. I did a quick simulation on the duncanamps PSUD, and got a peak to average ratio of about ten. (By the way, the current draw in a class A amp exhibits the same behaviour.)
Suppose the power supply is drawing 240 Watts. That's an average of two amps (and I will be lame by ignoring the difference between average and rms...). So that's a peak of 20 amps!? Is that number real? I would like to hear from haldor.
OK, so what's the resistance of four contacts and 12 feet of 18 guage. 1 ohm? 0.5 ohm? Let's say it's 0.5 ohm, then at the peak current of 20A we lose 10 Volts across the transformer primary. That seems to mean an additional 8% of sag under load than what the transformer is already causing!
Sounds crazy (I'm surprised myself). But is my reasoning sound? If not, where did I go wrong?
(For the purpose of looking into this can we temporarily assume that the impedance of the AC supply at the wall is zero...)
JohnR
Can we try some numbers? I am curious to see what you or haldor would think of them. I did a quick simulation on the duncanamps PSUD, and got a peak to average ratio of about ten. (By the way, the current draw in a class A amp exhibits the same behaviour.)
Suppose the power supply is drawing 240 Watts. That's an average of two amps (and I will be lame by ignoring the difference between average and rms...). So that's a peak of 20 amps!? Is that number real? I would like to hear from haldor.
OK, so what's the resistance of four contacts and 12 feet of 18 guage. 1 ohm? 0.5 ohm? Let's say it's 0.5 ohm, then at the peak current of 20A we lose 10 Volts across the transformer primary. That seems to mean an additional 8% of sag under load than what the transformer is already causing!
Sounds crazy (I'm surprised myself). But is my reasoning sound? If not, where did I go wrong?
(For the purpose of looking into this can we temporarily assume that the impedance of the AC supply at the wall is zero...)
JohnR
Greetings
Skippy You make a good point. People are free to express their opinion. Its called democracy. No censorship. The original poster asked a question initially and perhaps it is true we should just have given him an answer. But it didn't turn out like that. Maybe some of us here sensed the guy was a fake. There has to be a reason it went sideways
Free from any negative comments. I dont think so . If you stick your hand up and say something you expect comments. I have no axe to grind against anyone here. If they dont like what I say tough luck makes no difference to me I say what I think. I like to help people. 99 percent of the time thats what happens but there is always that 1 percent where things dont work out. You look over all the other posts here. Guys ask questions, they get answers. Guys start projects and others join in. Some do it on their own, some as a group. Hardly ever seen any disharmony but here you are. This is that one percent. Personally I dont think there is anything in power cords and it falls into the category of snake oil as others have said. But apart from that I dont think the guy was genuine. By his own admission he used to import and sell power cords but no longer. He asked a question which he must have known the answer to all along. Is it fair and reasonable to act in that manner.
Okay maybe I should not have said load of crap.
I could have said I am of the firm belief that a 1000 dollar power cord seems overpriced and unlikely to convey any real or imagined benifits and is simply mercenary unscrupulous individuals preying on the uninformed but I did not say that. I like what I said much better.
Skippy has an isolation system. He says he can hear the difference. Fair enough that sounds useful and interesting. Some things do need consideration, and that one would make a very useful thread, but power cords.
How many people have a text book on power cords. Not many I would suggest.
How many give the slightest consideration to power cords when building a device other than adequate capacity and safety. Not many I would suggest.
Of all the appliances in your house wouldn't a Tv be in need of a super duper power cord. The human eye is most discerning. But do they. No. All the grunty work is done inside the TV and the power cord is just an ordinary item. If you get a rubbish picture you are not going out to buy a new power cord are you. Maybe a new aerial or coax but not a new power cord.
Skippy You make a good point. People are free to express their opinion. Its called democracy. No censorship. The original poster asked a question initially and perhaps it is true we should just have given him an answer. But it didn't turn out like that. Maybe some of us here sensed the guy was a fake. There has to be a reason it went sideways
Free from any negative comments. I dont think so . If you stick your hand up and say something you expect comments. I have no axe to grind against anyone here. If they dont like what I say tough luck makes no difference to me I say what I think. I like to help people. 99 percent of the time thats what happens but there is always that 1 percent where things dont work out. You look over all the other posts here. Guys ask questions, they get answers. Guys start projects and others join in. Some do it on their own, some as a group. Hardly ever seen any disharmony but here you are. This is that one percent. Personally I dont think there is anything in power cords and it falls into the category of snake oil as others have said. But apart from that I dont think the guy was genuine. By his own admission he used to import and sell power cords but no longer. He asked a question which he must have known the answer to all along. Is it fair and reasonable to act in that manner.
Okay maybe I should not have said load of crap.
I could have said I am of the firm belief that a 1000 dollar power cord seems overpriced and unlikely to convey any real or imagined benifits and is simply mercenary unscrupulous individuals preying on the uninformed but I did not say that. I like what I said much better.
Skippy has an isolation system. He says he can hear the difference. Fair enough that sounds useful and interesting. Some things do need consideration, and that one would make a very useful thread, but power cords.
How many people have a text book on power cords. Not many I would suggest.
How many give the slightest consideration to power cords when building a device other than adequate capacity and safety. Not many I would suggest.
Of all the appliances in your house wouldn't a Tv be in need of a super duper power cord. The human eye is most discerning. But do they. No. All the grunty work is done inside the TV and the power cord is just an ordinary item. If you get a rubbish picture you are not going out to buy a new power cord are you. Maybe a new aerial or coax but not a new power cord.
Yeah sorry Joseph... i didnt mean to offend you if that is indeed what i have done.... what i set out to do was advise you that there is no thoretical or measured evidence that suggests that 'burning in' is at all useful .... If you wanna do it tho ... go right ahead... i just cant justify it given that many other aspects of a system can often be improved for less money and provide a comparatively bigger gain .... does burn in make a difference? i cant imagine or explain it ... but maybe just maybe it does.... so good luck.
Don't you guys misunderstand me. Even in this situation we go off on a tangent and there is something else to be gleened. I saw this post when it was young and not knowing the answer to Josephs question I didn't answer. I chose not to post an opinion because I'm not going to pay more than 20 bucks for a power cord, so I stayed out of it. Maybe it had something to do with what I learned in kindergarten. You know we learn everything we need in life in kindergarten.
Maybe Joseph wasn't genuine. In that case he got what he was fishing for, but for me, thats his problem. I'm not jumping anybodys craw here, but sometimes you guys are rough.
All that said, I never take anything personal. I'll never hold a grudge against anyone here and will be the first to admit when I'm wrong. And sometimes I'm wrong, though I always try to check the book first before I step out on the limb. Some people don't.
Maybe Joseph wasn't genuine. In that case he got what he was fishing for, but for me, thats his problem. I'm not jumping anybodys craw here, but sometimes you guys are rough.
All that said, I never take anything personal. I'll never hold a grudge against anyone here and will be the first to admit when I'm wrong. And sometimes I'm wrong, though I always try to check the book first before I step out on the limb. Some people don't.
Lemme stir the pot by tossing out an idea for you guys to chew on, okay?
Here are your test conditions. Signal. Class AB amp. High power. High volume (i.e. we're using the amp at a non-trivial percentage of its muscle).
The circuit modulates the rails, the rails modulate the power supply, this kicks back towards the wall socket.
(Don't follow what I'm saying? Think of the hash thrown back up the line by a digital piece, or the way the lights dim when you hit a big circuit hard on a 15A AC line. With me?)
Okay, under these conditions, the power cable becomes a sort of 'unwilling' interconnect, passing a filtered (the power supply caps acted as a low pass filter as the signal went by, right?) version of the signal back into the power line.
All right, all you theory-monsters, here's your assignment: What would this do to your AC that's coming back down the line into your power amp? How about into the rest of your system?
For extra credit, gnaw on this one: Add to the above conditions that your source is a CD player <i>on the same outlet</i>. The CD player throws digital slice 'n dice hash into your AC line. Suddenly that little, bitty two meter cable is all that stands between your amp and a whole lotta nasty coming down the line. Horatio at the pass.
Take it and run. I'll be back later. I've got a Mini-Aleph to babysit. Report soon.
Grey
P.S.: Oh, and guys? Thanks for the more reasonable tone.
Now, let's put our heads together and play with this on a what-if basis and quit worrying about what some chuckle-head charges for a dollar's worth of wire, okay?
Here are your test conditions. Signal. Class AB amp. High power. High volume (i.e. we're using the amp at a non-trivial percentage of its muscle).
The circuit modulates the rails, the rails modulate the power supply, this kicks back towards the wall socket.
(Don't follow what I'm saying? Think of the hash thrown back up the line by a digital piece, or the way the lights dim when you hit a big circuit hard on a 15A AC line. With me?)
Okay, under these conditions, the power cable becomes a sort of 'unwilling' interconnect, passing a filtered (the power supply caps acted as a low pass filter as the signal went by, right?) version of the signal back into the power line.
All right, all you theory-monsters, here's your assignment: What would this do to your AC that's coming back down the line into your power amp? How about into the rest of your system?
For extra credit, gnaw on this one: Add to the above conditions that your source is a CD player <i>on the same outlet</i>. The CD player throws digital slice 'n dice hash into your AC line. Suddenly that little, bitty two meter cable is all that stands between your amp and a whole lotta nasty coming down the line. Horatio at the pass.
Take it and run. I'll be back later. I've got a Mini-Aleph to babysit. Report soon.
Grey
P.S.: Oh, and guys? Thanks for the more reasonable tone.
Now, let's put our heads together and play with this on a what-if basis and quit worrying about what some chuckle-head charges for a dollar's worth of wire, okay?
Greetings
Skippy, I dont misunderstand you. I think you are a genuine up front guy. Pretty good elder if you dont mind my saying.
Some of us might give the impression of being rough. Speaking personally I am not rough at all. I like to keep my head down. Not rock the boat that sort of thing. But occasionally I have something to say. This was one occasion. I have absolutely no idea if high cost power cords make any difference. Or whether its like beauty, in the mind of the beholder. Could be fertile ground for someone to explore. What got my goat was someone asking a question when its almost 100 percent sure bet they knew the answer already. Thats not cricket. Not in my book anyway.
Causing offence was never intended.
Skippy, I dont misunderstand you. I think you are a genuine up front guy. Pretty good elder if you dont mind my saying.
Some of us might give the impression of being rough. Speaking personally I am not rough at all. I like to keep my head down. Not rock the boat that sort of thing. But occasionally I have something to say. This was one occasion. I have absolutely no idea if high cost power cords make any difference. Or whether its like beauty, in the mind of the beholder. Could be fertile ground for someone to explore. What got my goat was someone asking a question when its almost 100 percent sure bet they knew the answer already. Thats not cricket. Not in my book anyway.
Causing offence was never intended.
Hi Grey,
Now you're talking. I agree with your starting senerio. Before we try to figure out what the best solution is I would be a good idea to figure out the demands that audio gear place on the AC power and how the standard (cheap) solution looks. I would like to stipulate that the equipment we discuss be limited to using typical linear power supplies, no switchers or unique power supply topologies, sorry Kilowatt ;^).
1 Power Amp Requirements:
1.1 Large slug of current (full wave form duty cycle) at power on until the transformer and filter caps reach equilibrium.
1.2 During the power on transient audio performance is irrelevent (speakers should be disconnected during this event to avoid potentially damaging transients).
1.3 After the power on transient is complete, the amp will draw short (fractions of a cycle) bursts of current that are pulse width modulated by the audio signal. The current pulse duty cycle to audio level ratio will have significant nonlinearity, more so in Class A amps.
1.4 Current pulses will have fairly slow rise times due to the low pass filtering of the power transformer and filter caps.
1.5 Audio transients shouldn't have a significant impact on the duty cycle of the current pulses unless undersized filter caps are used in the amplifier.
1.6 Line voltage sag will result in reduced power output capability (with 8 ohm speaker loads) and could result in clipping at high volumes.
1.7 Rectifier noise will not be significantly attenuated by primary filter caps. Capacitive coupling through power transformer will provide path to line input. Assume some RFI filtering will be provided in amplifier to meet agency approvals (FCC, CE, etc) for commercial sale.
2 Typical Power Cord Characteristics.
I grabbed three different brands of 6 foot industrial IEC line cords out of my lab and measured the following results on my LCR meter.
2.1 Resistance. Averaged roughly 0.03 ohms per linear foot.
2.2 Capacitance. Averaged roughly 30 pF per linear foot.
2.3 Inductance. Averaged roughly 0.1 uH per linear foot.
Note: Measurements include molded on Edison and IEC plug. Impedance and resistance measured with copper jumper wire on IEC plug end, capacitance measured with open ended cable. All measurements made at 120 Hz, 1KHz and 10kHz and results averaged. Two of the cables agreed within 10% of each other, third cable had readings about 20% below the other two.
3. Signal Source (CD player in this case)
3.1. Large slug of current (full wave form duty cycle) at powerup until the power supply reach equilibrium, this power on transient will be smaller in magnitude and shorter in duration than the power amps.
3.2. After power on transient is completed, device will draw very short current pulses at line freqency intervals. No audio level dependent effects on current draw.
3.3. Intermitant changes in current requirements will occur as mechanical transport is started and stopped.
I will post further once I have had a chance to digest it. First thought that comes to mind is that a power amp and a CD player could have very different ideal solutions.
If anyone has a particular line cord or piece of gear you would like characterized I have a fully equiped lab at my disposal and would be willing to do so (LCR meter, Audio and RF band spectrum analyzers, arbitrary wave form generator, EFT Burst Generator, etc.) . I live in Spartanburg SC if any of you are close.
Additional thoughts? Further measurements desired? Comments?
Phil
Now you're talking. I agree with your starting senerio. Before we try to figure out what the best solution is I would be a good idea to figure out the demands that audio gear place on the AC power and how the standard (cheap) solution looks. I would like to stipulate that the equipment we discuss be limited to using typical linear power supplies, no switchers or unique power supply topologies, sorry Kilowatt ;^).
1 Power Amp Requirements:
1.1 Large slug of current (full wave form duty cycle) at power on until the transformer and filter caps reach equilibrium.
1.2 During the power on transient audio performance is irrelevent (speakers should be disconnected during this event to avoid potentially damaging transients).
1.3 After the power on transient is complete, the amp will draw short (fractions of a cycle) bursts of current that are pulse width modulated by the audio signal. The current pulse duty cycle to audio level ratio will have significant nonlinearity, more so in Class A amps.
1.4 Current pulses will have fairly slow rise times due to the low pass filtering of the power transformer and filter caps.
1.5 Audio transients shouldn't have a significant impact on the duty cycle of the current pulses unless undersized filter caps are used in the amplifier.
1.6 Line voltage sag will result in reduced power output capability (with 8 ohm speaker loads) and could result in clipping at high volumes.
1.7 Rectifier noise will not be significantly attenuated by primary filter caps. Capacitive coupling through power transformer will provide path to line input. Assume some RFI filtering will be provided in amplifier to meet agency approvals (FCC, CE, etc) for commercial sale.
2 Typical Power Cord Characteristics.
I grabbed three different brands of 6 foot industrial IEC line cords out of my lab and measured the following results on my LCR meter.
2.1 Resistance. Averaged roughly 0.03 ohms per linear foot.
2.2 Capacitance. Averaged roughly 30 pF per linear foot.
2.3 Inductance. Averaged roughly 0.1 uH per linear foot.
Note: Measurements include molded on Edison and IEC plug. Impedance and resistance measured with copper jumper wire on IEC plug end, capacitance measured with open ended cable. All measurements made at 120 Hz, 1KHz and 10kHz and results averaged. Two of the cables agreed within 10% of each other, third cable had readings about 20% below the other two.
3. Signal Source (CD player in this case)
3.1. Large slug of current (full wave form duty cycle) at powerup until the power supply reach equilibrium, this power on transient will be smaller in magnitude and shorter in duration than the power amps.
3.2. After power on transient is completed, device will draw very short current pulses at line freqency intervals. No audio level dependent effects on current draw.
3.3. Intermitant changes in current requirements will occur as mechanical transport is started and stopped.
I will post further once I have had a chance to digest it. First thought that comes to mind is that a power amp and a CD player could have very different ideal solutions.
If anyone has a particular line cord or piece of gear you would like characterized I have a fully equiped lab at my disposal and would be willing to do so (LCR meter, Audio and RF band spectrum analyzers, arbitrary wave form generator, EFT Burst Generator, etc.) . I live in Spartanburg SC if any of you are close.
Additional thoughts? Further measurements desired? Comments?
Phil
I guess I helped divert this thread to the cost thing, which was maybe off topic. My point was that the psychology of the cost of the cord would make more of a subjective difference than the characteristics of the cord itself. IMHO.
Actually we're still a bit off the original topic, which was how to burn in a power cord.
So after we've figured out whether a power cord could make a difference to the sound, we have to find out what might change after you run some amperes through it. And maybe we could extend this to include, how do you tell if a power cord has reached its end of life?
Actually we're still a bit off the original topic, which was how to burn in a power cord.
So after we've figured out whether a power cord could make a difference to the sound, we have to find out what might change after you run some amperes through it. And maybe we could extend this to include, how do you tell if a power cord has reached its end of life?
Phil,
Now that you mention it, the optimum solution might very well be different for a CD or an amp. In fact, I kinda like that idea. You go, fella!
Paul,
You weren't the only one who brought up the price issue. Don't worry about it. To me (just me, mind you), the price is a separate issue from the performance. For me the flow chart goes something like this:
--Does the cable make a difference? Yes/No
--If yes:
--Does the cable make a <i>good</i> difference? Yes/No
--If yes:
--How much does it cost? Affordable/Not Affordable
--YIKES!
--Okay, lemme see that white paper. Just exactly how did they go about putting this sucker together and is it something I can do?
You get the idea.
I've never heard anyone mention that anything other than electrolytic caps and tubes have an operating life span. The only postulated mechanism I've heard yet for cable break-in was the one I gave earlier, and that involves the insulation, not the cable.
NOTE---NOTE---NOTE---NOTE
->This is <i>not</i> to start up another firestorm of negative junk!<-
I just remembered that someone forwarded me a copy of an e-mail from Julian Vereker of Naim fame regarding cable directionality. He (Vereker) said that it wasn't the cable itself that had directionality, that it was the insulation that did it. Up until application of the insulation, there was no audible difference. Once the jacket was extruded onto the wire, it acquired an audible direction.
END OF NOTE---END OF NOTE
It just occurred to me that if the jacket/insulation is the common element between break-in and directionality, that we might direct inquiries accordingly.
Theories? How does it work?
I dunno, gimme that willow bark, Running Bear, I feel a headache coming on.
Cripes, guys. I've been slaving over a hot Mini-A all day, let me sleep on this, okay? I can't solve all the world's problems in this same one hour or people would start expecting me to walk on water or something.
Still, it's an interesting possibility, as we already know that insulators have other measurable properties that we can work with.
This suggests related questions:
--Does the composition of the insulation (vinyl, enamel, shellac, what have you) effect break-in/directionality?
--The thickness of the insulation?
--The construction of the cable (twisted, flat [ala Nordost, et. al.], multiple conductors, shielding...)? (I ask this in the sense that some of the construction strategies involve multiple wires within the cable, each with its own insulation. In fact, to complicate matters further, my old MIT 650 has different kinds of insulation within the same cable. Oi! More willow bark, Running Bear!)
--And whatever it was that I was about to say that I forgot before my poor fingers could type it in...
Egad, I'm tired. I'll see you guys tomorrow.
Grey
Now that you mention it, the optimum solution might very well be different for a CD or an amp. In fact, I kinda like that idea. You go, fella!
Paul,
You weren't the only one who brought up the price issue. Don't worry about it. To me (just me, mind you), the price is a separate issue from the performance. For me the flow chart goes something like this:
--Does the cable make a difference? Yes/No
--If yes:
--Does the cable make a <i>good</i> difference? Yes/No
--If yes:
--How much does it cost? Affordable/Not Affordable
--YIKES!
--Okay, lemme see that white paper. Just exactly how did they go about putting this sucker together and is it something I can do?
You get the idea.
I've never heard anyone mention that anything other than electrolytic caps and tubes have an operating life span. The only postulated mechanism I've heard yet for cable break-in was the one I gave earlier, and that involves the insulation, not the cable.
NOTE---NOTE---NOTE---NOTE
->This is <i>not</i> to start up another firestorm of negative junk!<-
I just remembered that someone forwarded me a copy of an e-mail from Julian Vereker of Naim fame regarding cable directionality. He (Vereker) said that it wasn't the cable itself that had directionality, that it was the insulation that did it. Up until application of the insulation, there was no audible difference. Once the jacket was extruded onto the wire, it acquired an audible direction.
END OF NOTE---END OF NOTE
It just occurred to me that if the jacket/insulation is the common element between break-in and directionality, that we might direct inquiries accordingly.
Theories? How does it work?
I dunno, gimme that willow bark, Running Bear, I feel a headache coming on.
Cripes, guys. I've been slaving over a hot Mini-A all day, let me sleep on this, okay? I can't solve all the world's problems in this same one hour or people would start expecting me to walk on water or something.
Still, it's an interesting possibility, as we already know that insulators have other measurable properties that we can work with.
This suggests related questions:
--Does the composition of the insulation (vinyl, enamel, shellac, what have you) effect break-in/directionality?
--The thickness of the insulation?
--The construction of the cable (twisted, flat [ala Nordost, et. al.], multiple conductors, shielding...)? (I ask this in the sense that some of the construction strategies involve multiple wires within the cable, each with its own insulation. In fact, to complicate matters further, my old MIT 650 has different kinds of insulation within the same cable. Oi! More willow bark, Running Bear!)
--And whatever it was that I was about to say that I forgot before my poor fingers could type it in...
Egad, I'm tired. I'll see you guys tomorrow.
Grey
JohnR said:
Well, no, i think you're right. This happens, and yes, it reduces the output power and... well, there's nothing we can do about it, except using a regulated PSU. Just bear in mind this happens with PEAK currents, not all the time, and that the reduction in power is unlikely to be audible unless the output power is way too low.
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