Dielectric strength

M Gregg · 28th July 2011, 01:10 PM

SY,

Dielectric strength,

How does this link to bonding of electrons within atomic structure?

Regards
M. Gregg

M Gregg · 29th July 2011, 06:49 AM

So here is the first question:

What happens to the bonding of the electrons as the material ages?
I notice that if you measure insulation resistance value over a period "Years" the value will drop until flash over takes place.

Regards
M.Gregg

M Gregg · 29th July 2011, 07:51 AM

For anyone interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulator_(electrical)

Just gives some background might be of interest.

Regards
M. Gregg

SY · 29th July 2011, 09:56 AM

If you're reading Wikipedia, look at this:

Dielectric strength - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's actually a pretty good article. Note that vacuum has a dielectric breakdown voltage, and one that is rather intermediate in their list of materials.

M Gregg · 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SY

If you're reading Wikipedia, look at this:

Dielectric strength - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's actually a pretty good article. Note that vacuum has a dielectric breakdown voltage, and one that is rather intermediate in their list of materials.

Yes the vacuum is interesting also the difference with extruded teflon Vs Film.

Looking at:

Avalanche breakdown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_discharge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakdown_voltage <<<<vacuum

I still wonder about the reduction of insulation resistance over time. Apart from contamination and absorption which would make sense. The ambient temperature effects the insulation properties. However it does not say if this returns as ambient drops to normal. Or if the damage is done!

Regards
M. Gregg

SY · 29th July 2011, 02:29 PM

Electron avalanche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

More applicable to materials like plastic or gases.

BudP · 30th July 2011, 10:32 PM

Two issues with dielectric materials in use. Temperature is an aging multiplier and corona is also. In transformers we exclude oxygen molecules, to the best of our ability, to allow maximum mtbf from the dielectric barriers that keep electrical gear from becoming Darwinian selection devices.

Different materials require different storage mechanisms to keep them from aging due to other environmental threats. An example is Kapton film, which must be kept from moisture and cold temperatures, which will accelerate that materials aging.

Bud

M Gregg · 31st July 2011, 07:53 AM

Thank's Bud,

Thats realy interesting.

Open question.
So what is happening to the materials to enable reduced resistance or increased conduction to take place? (aging)

Regards
M. Gregg

M Gregg · 09:33 AM

Thought I would post this because I found it interesting.

http://www.ipme.ru/e-journals/RAMS/no_21306/amin.pdf

Not quite what we are covering but still interesting!

Then this:

http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/eng...tric-phenomena

Seems to be much closer.

Regards
M. gregg

M Gregg · 11:11 AM

This again may be interesting to some,

http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/16113/1/04543118.pdf

Just for interest.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_12/8.html <<<easier

Over to SY's book I think.... Shive and Weber, "Similarities in Physics."

Regards
M. Gregg

28th July 2011, 01:10 PM	#1
M Gregg diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: UK	Dielectric strength SY, Dielectric strength, How does this link to bonding of electrons within atomic structure? Regards M. Gregg __________________ What is the sound of one hand clapping?

29th July 2011, 06:49 AM	#2
M Gregg diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: UK	So here is the first question: What happens to the bonding of the electrons as the material ages? I notice that if you measure insulation resistance value over a period "Years" the value will drop until flash over takes place. Regards M.Gregg __________________ What is the sound of one hand clapping?

29th July 2011, 07:51 AM	#3
M Gregg diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: UK	For anyone interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulator_(electrical) Just gives some background might be of interest. Regards M. Gregg __________________ What is the sound of one hand clapping?

29th July 2011, 09:56 AM	#4
SY diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX Blog Entries: 1	If you're reading Wikipedia, look at this: Dielectric strength - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It's actually a pretty good article. Note that vacuum has a dielectric breakdown voltage, and one that is rather intermediate in their list of materials. __________________ “Listening to records is like ****ing a picture of Brigitte Bardot.” - Sergiu Celibidache

29th July 2011, 02:29 PM	#6
SY diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX Blog Entries: 1	Electron avalanche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia More applicable to materials like plastic or gases. __________________ “Listening to records is like ****ing a picture of Brigitte Bardot.” - Sergiu Celibidache


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30th July 2011, 10:32 PM	#7
BudP diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: upper left crust, united snakes	Two issues with dielectric materials in use. Temperature is an aging multiplier and corona is also. In transformers we exclude oxygen molecules, to the best of our ability, to allow maximum mtbf from the dielectric barriers that keep electrical gear from becoming Darwinian selection devices. Different materials require different storage mechanisms to keep them from aging due to other environmental threats. An example is Kapton film, which must be kept from moisture and cold temperatures, which will accelerate that materials aging. Bud __________________ "You and I and every other thing are a dependent arising, empty of any inherent reality" Tsong Ko Pa

31st July 2011, 07:53 AM	#8
M Gregg diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: UK	Thank's Bud, Thats realy interesting. Open question. So what is happening to the materials to enable reduced resistance or increased conduction to take place? (aging) Regards M. Gregg __________________ What is the sound of one hand clapping?

31st July 2011, 09:24 AM	#9
M Gregg diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: UK	Thought I would post this because I found it interesting. http://www.ipme.ru/e-journals/RAMS/no_21306/amin.pdf Not quite what we are covering but still interesting! Then this: http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/eng...tric-phenomena Seems to be much closer. Regards M. gregg __________________ What is the sound of one hand clapping? Last edited by M Gregg; 31st July 2011 at 09:33 AM.

31st July 2011, 10:49 AM	#10
M Gregg diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: UK	This again may be interesting to some, http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/16113/1/04543118.pdf Just for interest. http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_12/8.html <<<easier Over to SY's book I think.... Shive and Weber, "Similarities in Physics." Regards M. Gregg __________________ What is the sound of one hand clapping? Last edited by M Gregg; 31st July 2011 at 11:11 AM.

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