The Bybees finally arrived and I've just spent close to 3 hours conducting these tests. They were purely subjective listening tests because as a consumer I would like to know what they are about. These are the small Bybees, the ones that cost less than 100 dollars each. They are recommended for use in lower power applications such as mids and tweeters so that’s what I focused on. I have two, so part way through testing I decided to double them (in series) to accentuate the results as their literature suggests I might and started the testing again. I went in with an open mind and I conducted the tests in near field and very near field conditions. Volume ranged from about 60 dB to as loud as I could stand before my head started buzzing. I conducted the first part after work and the second after beer.
I used 20 different drivers from woofers to mids to tweeters. Closed back, open back, ported, sealed, aperiodic and free air. Cones, domes, horns both big and small, paper, kevlar, simulated aerogel, aluminum, titanium, phenolic, silk, polycarbonate, piezos and ribbons with ceramic, neo and alnico magnets. Some drivers were new and some were previously loved. The largest driver was 6.5” and the smallest was 5/8”. I have more but I thought this was a good mix and a good start.
To me the input is not that important because if they are capable of improving a system it should include weaker ones as the really good ones hardly need the help, yes? If you disagree that’s fine but I really don’t care, I was out to find what they could offer me, the consumer, the one who is purchasing them in an effort to improve the sound of his system.
I used only one channel, I shunted the other with a resistor. I used alligator clip test leads and/or twist connections.
On the larger units I first used a 125 mfd cap and then a 20 mfd. On the smaller units I used a 20 or a 6.8 mfd first and then a 1.0 mfd.
Results coming shortly, I'm getting thirsty just typing.
I used 20 different drivers from woofers to mids to tweeters. Closed back, open back, ported, sealed, aperiodic and free air. Cones, domes, horns both big and small, paper, kevlar, simulated aerogel, aluminum, titanium, phenolic, silk, polycarbonate, piezos and ribbons with ceramic, neo and alnico magnets. Some drivers were new and some were previously loved. The largest driver was 6.5” and the smallest was 5/8”. I have more but I thought this was a good mix and a good start.
To me the input is not that important because if they are capable of improving a system it should include weaker ones as the really good ones hardly need the help, yes? If you disagree that’s fine but I really don’t care, I was out to find what they could offer me, the consumer, the one who is purchasing them in an effort to improve the sound of his system.
I used only one channel, I shunted the other with a resistor. I used alligator clip test leads and/or twist connections.
On the larger units I first used a 125 mfd cap and then a 20 mfd. On the smaller units I used a 20 or a 6.8 mfd first and then a 1.0 mfd.
Results coming shortly, I'm getting thirsty just typing.
My findings are as follows:
I found no affect on any of the larger drivers whatsoever.
It was on the smaller drivers, those capable of the highest frequencies such as the ribbons and only when using the 1.0 mfd cap did I notice a difference. When I say difference I wish to stress that this difference reminded me of the tiniest of attenuations which may or may not be due to their mildly resistive nature or it may be what the makers of this product are describing in their literature, I don't know. Either way, the attenuation was so minimal as to be considered miniscule from layman's standards and so much so that many would not notice the difference.
Now, from a consumer point of view I must confess disappointment. I believe that a product that makes claims such as this one should offer more in the way a noticeable difference. Even if I didn't like the difference I would still like to hear one. Would I recommend this product? Not with the testing conducted so far. I'm not finished but perhaps you guys can suggest other tests.
Please don't turn this into a 'told you so' thread. I'm not happy about the investment and I'm likely to make those kinds of post disappear really quickly.
I found no affect on any of the larger drivers whatsoever.
It was on the smaller drivers, those capable of the highest frequencies such as the ribbons and only when using the 1.0 mfd cap did I notice a difference. When I say difference I wish to stress that this difference reminded me of the tiniest of attenuations which may or may not be due to their mildly resistive nature or it may be what the makers of this product are describing in their literature, I don't know. Either way, the attenuation was so minimal as to be considered miniscule from layman's standards and so much so that many would not notice the difference.
Now, from a consumer point of view I must confess disappointment. I believe that a product that makes claims such as this one should offer more in the way a noticeable difference. Even if I didn't like the difference I would still like to hear one. Would I recommend this product? Not with the testing conducted so far. I'm not finished but perhaps you guys can suggest other tests.
Please don't turn this into a 'told you so' thread. I'm not happy about the investment and I'm likely to make those kinds of post disappear really quickly.
Bybee vs no Bybee, apparently the total resistance for the two equals .05 ohms. I don't have that type of resistor on hand.
Thank you John, a very kind offer but I often prefer to learn my lessons differently. Please don't take that as a slight. I have more digesting to do. I am hoping others might offer forth alternative listening tests I've yet to consider.
Inexpensive.
If you insist, then please take Jack Bybee's and Brian Cheney's strong advice to break them in with real music or sweeping test tones for 200 Hrs before trying anything else. I know this seems stupid and difficult to you, but there it is. Brian Cheney has first hand advice on this matter and you may speak to him, if you want to. I will give you his number, privately.
I for one commend Cal for taking the monetary and time investments to do this evaluation. Although it is only a brief listening test, it's still nice to have someone make this sort of evaluation.
Of course, from reading Cal's first post, the most obvious thing I can determine is that Cal has WAY too many different drivers laying around. And I thought I was bad!
Peace,
Dave
Of course, from reading Cal's first post, the most obvious thing I can determine is that Cal has WAY too many different drivers laying around. And I thought I was bad!
Peace,
Dave
It takes 200 hours for the quantum effect to fully kick in?
Man, those quarks are slow learners aren't they? Are they forgetful as well? How often should they be used to ensure they remember what to sound like?
Gotta say I admire your testing regime Cal - any testing that requires beer is REAL testing!
Perhaps if this was indicated in their literature. I saw no such suggestion.
Difficult? No.
Thank you, we can discuss this after further testing if am not satisfied with the results.
Thank you Dave.
Geez Dave I only took drivers off three different shelves. I have a room full of that kinda thing.
Mind you I don't begin to hold a candle to planet10. I am addicted it's true but he's plain nuts.
What I would like to know is, if the "Bybee Filters" change the the electrical propagation characteristics of the cables/wires due to increases in capacitance or inductance. Similar to what happens when you clamp on a ferrite over a cable.
A small change in reactance as opposed to resistance would be audible, not necessarily for better or worse, just different.
Use your favorite speakers, put one in the tweeter on one side, play mono and listen for a few hours, then switch which side it is in. If it takes long term listening that may do it.
But at the very least you should be sure all your gear has the AC plugs flipped correctly, the audio interconnects are clean and broken in, the electronics are mechanically isolated and the beer cold. Yes I am serious a single beer does actually measurably improve listening ability for some folks.
No one here is going to challenge that.
I will be running them on a sine sweep 20 - 20 for a few days before I do further testing. Thanks for your ideas.
Hi Cal,
Now there is a very balanced and truthful report. Most people do not have the patience to test as many drivers as you have. Kudos sir!
I'm going to second Simon7000's advice. Use your best stuff - the stuff you personally prefer and not what anyone else feels is the best. Just install the Bybee devices on both tweeters, or mid - high channels if you're setup is actively crossed over. Then, simply listen for a couple weeks. After that, remove the devices and listen for another few days to a week. If they affect the sound in any way at all, you will notice.
I'd suggest listening to some of your music that has some delicate high frequency material. Female vocals (well, most anyway) will also tend to show differences. Nothing is a rush here, and beer simply makes you more susceptible to suggestion.
If anyone has a really good LCR meter, technical properties can be measured relatively easily. I use an HP (Agilent now) 4263A, and I very commonly use it to show me differences in capacitor quality. The dissipation reading is the most indicative of component quality. It's easy to sort good silver mica capacitors from the not-as-good ones. Same for resistors and inductances. The readings on the meter agree with what I think I hear from listening tests conducted before the measurements. Anyone who is close to you can conduct these tests for you. They don't have to listen to them.
My own system has 4 ohm rated speakers that use Al dome tweeters (I think they are aluminum). I find they will reveal any slight problems with the electronics, and being 4 ohm, more sensitive to changes in impedance between the amplifier and them. However, I doubt I can lend any useful information through listening over what you can.
See if anyone close to you has better equipment (LCR meter for example). I also have an audio network analyzer (HP 35665A). I don;t expect it to reveal anything beyond what the LCR will tell me.
-Chris
Now there is a very balanced and truthful report. Most people do not have the patience to test as many drivers as you have. Kudos sir!
I'm going to second Simon7000's advice. Use your best stuff - the stuff you personally prefer and not what anyone else feels is the best. Just install the Bybee devices on both tweeters, or mid - high channels if you're setup is actively crossed over. Then, simply listen for a couple weeks. After that, remove the devices and listen for another few days to a week. If they affect the sound in any way at all, you will notice.
I'd suggest listening to some of your music that has some delicate high frequency material. Female vocals (well, most anyway) will also tend to show differences. Nothing is a rush here, and beer simply makes you more susceptible to suggestion.
If anyone has a really good LCR meter, technical properties can be measured relatively easily. I use an HP (Agilent now) 4263A, and I very commonly use it to show me differences in capacitor quality. The dissipation reading is the most indicative of component quality. It's easy to sort good silver mica capacitors from the not-as-good ones. Same for resistors and inductances. The readings on the meter agree with what I think I hear from listening tests conducted before the measurements. Anyone who is close to you can conduct these tests for you. They don't have to listen to them.
My own system has 4 ohm rated speakers that use Al dome tweeters (I think they are aluminum). I find they will reveal any slight problems with the electronics, and being 4 ohm, more sensitive to changes in impedance between the amplifier and them. However, I doubt I can lend any useful information through listening over what you can.
See if anyone close to you has better equipment (LCR meter for example). I also have an audio network analyzer (HP 35665A). I don;t expect it to reveal anything beyond what the LCR will tell me.
-Chris
John Curl,
Do you think the frequency sweep should be done from 20 - 20K and should be done straight as in 8 days or is it ok to do it at 8 hrs a day for 24 days? Either way is fine but seems excessive. I wish to give the device some validity and would appreciate your input.
Others, please steer clear unless you have some positive burn-in ideas.
Do you think the frequency sweep should be done from 20 - 20K and should be done straight as in 8 days or is it ok to do it at 8 hrs a day for 24 days? Either way is fine but seems excessive. I wish to give the device some validity and would appreciate your input.
Others, please steer clear unless you have some positive burn-in ideas.
Hi Cal,
Experience from others I have talked to seem to center on random noise to break in the entire audio system. That's the safest way since a straight tone will concentrate too much energy in one spot, so it doesn't sound as loud as it really is until you hit midrange and it hurts.
Two things to watch out for no matter what method you use. First, make sure your amp(s) never even get close to clipping. Secondly, make sure you never allow more than a single watt in the tweeter's band of operation. Mids can take more, but not anywhere near what a woofer will absorb without damage. Some better tweeters may take more than a couple watts without damage, but without knowing exactly what you are using and specifics of the crossover, it's best to err on the safe side.
I hope you view those as positive burn-in ideas (or cautions).
John's advice seems pretty clear to me, not unless you are looking for his strong preference, or the way he actually does a burn-in. I would think that a continuous burn-in might be what he's looking for, but I'm no expert there. I don't even know if dummy loads would suffice, or if you need to burn in your speakers with the devices. Keep in mind that the work SY did may qualify for some burn-in time. Maybe DC tests would create the need for longer burn-in time? It would be good for John Curl to drop in with the finer points of burning a system in (rather than out).
-Chris
Experience from others I have talked to seem to center on random noise to break in the entire audio system. That's the safest way since a straight tone will concentrate too much energy in one spot, so it doesn't sound as loud as it really is until you hit midrange and it hurts.
Two things to watch out for no matter what method you use. First, make sure your amp(s) never even get close to clipping. Secondly, make sure you never allow more than a single watt in the tweeter's band of operation. Mids can take more, but not anywhere near what a woofer will absorb without damage. Some better tweeters may take more than a couple watts without damage, but without knowing exactly what you are using and specifics of the crossover, it's best to err on the safe side.
I hope you view those as positive burn-in ideas (or cautions).
John's advice seems pretty clear to me, not unless you are looking for his strong preference, or the way he actually does a burn-in. I would think that a continuous burn-in might be what he's looking for, but I'm no expert there. I don't even know if dummy loads would suffice, or if you need to burn in your speakers with the devices. Keep in mind that the work SY did may qualify for some burn-in time. Maybe DC tests would create the need for longer burn-in time? It would be good for John Curl to drop in with the finer points of burning a system in (rather than out).
-Chris
Cal, why don't you ask Brian Cheney like I asked you to do? Then you will have first hand knowledge. However, I suspect that this 'break-in' will not satisfy you, because you do not appear to have a reference listening standard that you know well, and can compare to. A single Bybee is subtle, not overwhelming, and usually sounds lousier when first plugged in, without break-in, BUT it does make a serious change in many systems. I have been there and heard it myself, when the sound actually got worse (over-damped sounding) and we had to remove them immediately. No soldering was required in Jack's demo, 15 years ago. I was just there for lunch and to visit the hi fi store.
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