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Old 16th January 2011, 07:13 PM   #101
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Coolness!

So they don't offshore anything?

se
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Old 16th January 2011, 07:18 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ostripper View Post
Nope , speaker upgrades tend to have a much larger impact on sound quality . Better drivers , as a "side effect" , allow one to better discern the differences in source's and electronics.
I agree that speakers can have huge impact on sound quality. However there is a certain amount of cash above it you can't hear the difference in blindfold test. From this point audiovoodoo begins...
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Originally Posted by ostripper View Post
The choice of caps in a crossover is audible as well , I swapped electro's for poly's (4.7u @100v) and the improvement was audible , especially at higher listening levels. On an amp's input cap, this same "swap" made no difference . The "bootstrap cap" on a amp is one instance that can be heard , swapping a cheap chinese NPO with a panasonic EE series is audible. I won't go to the blackgate level , but those caps do change electrically as the carbon "contaminants"... "bed down" .
Have you done the blindfold test? If not, then how can you tell it's not placebo/snake oil/homeopathy effect?
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Originally Posted by ostripper View Post
I will still use better components in the electronics .. not for the audiophile aspect , but to increase MTBF.
OS
I'm avoiding the cheapiest made in China no-name components just because they tend to explode or have very different parameters than is written on them. Imagine that 25 years old electrolytic capacitor made in Poland is still better than cheap Chinese product...
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Old 16th January 2011, 07:24 PM   #103
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Hello

My first encounting with high end audio was in the early 80's, in a small audio store, Audiorama in Montreal, the woman who was the owner of the store was a real audio maniac, for years she let me listen to high end systems gears; Radford, Spendor, Naim, Quad, Pierre Clement, Lin sondek, etc... I've learn a lot there and since I was poor I did just buy her a Connoisseur BD2 turntable and a small Nad amp. My dream was to have a Radford amp and since 3 years I have a Radford HD-250, but now I use my own diy amp with an old Oracle turntable and a moded Adcom cd player.

Every years I go to the Montreal audio show, not very much amps sound good enough to match the high price they cost, over 10K$ for an amp you pay way too much anyway. And there is so much snake oils told to the visitors, in the past I was so insulted by the fool snake oils talks told by some salesmen that I did almost get angry and told them how much they was d*** ... Now I don't say a word and just laugh and walk away from the.

Bye

Gaetan

Last edited by gaetan8888; 16th January 2011 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 16th January 2011, 07:44 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by m R g S r View Post
My GF's dad owns ada...audio design associates.

I bet their stuff will put all the big manufacturers stuff to shame.

They are hand made in house in a local facility, quality and sound from them is amazing!

name another home stereo amp that does 600rms per channel

Products: Home Theater: Whole-House Power Amplifiers: MPA-502 - ADA

Hi m R g S r,

Don't go gett'n your boxers all inna bunch there buddy - we are saying pretty much da same thing - just a different perspective.

From a quick look at the web site I would be inclined to agree with your assessment of the quality and design of GF's "dad's" gear. Ada isn't competing with the likes of Denon and Sony, etc. though - they are at a different level of client and use.

I enjoyed reading the "about us" page - great stuff!!
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Old 16th January 2011, 07:49 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Urgon View Post
AVE...

I agree that speakers can have huge impact on sound quality. However there is a certain amount of cash above it you can't hear the difference in blindfold test. From this point audiovoodoo begins...
quite wrong for speakers - horns, lines, ribbons, ESL, differing dynamic divers, numbers of drivers, cabnet size, diffraction, polar radiation patterns, comb filtering, xover points...

no two differing construction speakers come close to matching to within ABX established frequency response noticable difference levels in a domestic room at the listening position

in fact not many serial construction speakers of the same model match to those levels without driver matching, padding and tweaking of the xovers

Last edited by jcx; 16th January 2011 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 16th January 2011, 07:55 PM   #106
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Hi John and OS and many who share the same sentiment, I don't think we design, build amps, speakers and stuff to achieve the best, because obviously what you make yourself is the best, but we are always intrigued by the fact of if did this different or that would it have sounded more to what I like to hear. I think John hit it on the nail - it is hard to tell.

But we still do it continually and compulsively. If any of us hard cases start adding up what we spent in time and money on our hobby over the years, a complete highest end system would barley brake the pocket change barrier.
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Old 16th January 2011, 07:59 PM   #107
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Quote:
Have you done the blindfold test? If not, then how can you tell it's not placebo/snake oil/homeopathy effect?
The difference was to me (subjective).But , the electro degrades with every electron passing through it and polyesters are more uniform ESR vs. time. Rod elliot does a test to show the superiority of the poly .. Capacitor Characteristics

He even mentions the "snake oil" cap ..
Maxim even confirms this in this app note.
Do Passive Components Degrade Audio Quality in Your Portable Device? - Maxim

Even as the "snake oil" effect can allow many $$$$ to flow from the pockets of unknowing audiophiles , there is some evidence that quality components DO improve performance in "real world" measurable instances.

OS
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Old 16th January 2011, 08:02 PM   #108
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Again, the most important question is:

CAN YOU HEAR THE DIFFERENCE?


The differences are too subtle for human ear to detect. It's all in your heads. And the manufacturers and audiophile's magazines use
headology manipulate people into buying better equipment, more expensive speakers, special cable elevators, power cords and power conditioners...

Think logically. I know, for some people it can be painful (especially if you just spent 100000USD on better speakers), but just try to be reasonable...
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Old 16th January 2011, 08:04 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ostripper View Post

Even as the "snake oil" effect can allow many $$$$ to flow from the pockets of unknowing audiophiles , there is some evidence that quality components DO improve performance in "real world" measurable instances.

OS
Some would say this is an example of selling snake oil. I don't know because I haven't tested it out. Hmmmmmmm........... who's up for a DIY clone????

Solen Electronique Inc.
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Old 16th January 2011, 08:07 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Johnny2Bad View Post
To clarify, this was per week, at an average of 40.1 hours worked.
My point was and I think we agree that it is not what was the best system, but what an esoteric system of the time was worth in relation to income, and I doubt if the ratios has changed in current times.

However one must not compare prices between mass manufactured hi volume products against hand made on the kitchen table products because it is unfair that a hand made system with all the built in errors, bad soldering, horrible wiring, components bought from some shady hobby electronics dealer fitted into some lovely case imported from China should not cost a fortune, obviously this guy can only build one unit per month and he has to make his whole salary plus parts for the next one with the sale. Is it better than the volume market, NO. Is it more reliable, NO so what is it just some esoteric junk selling for a high price.

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