I would pay much less, I would think. I'm quite familiar with the "SMEE Three" and the Mark III and you can do as well or better with one of the mid-priced consumer tables; taken as a whole it's easy to beat the Pioneer table with one of the budget tables (not referring to the arm) from the better makers (REGA, etc).
No problem with the receiver ... most of the people here on DIY audio are building better stuff, and if not you can buy something. The KEFs are nice speakers but again you could equal them without breaking the bank. I'm pretty sure we can get even or better with commercial products for well under $3000.
If you want to go crazy, even though I don't think you have to to eat that record combo for lunch, you could look at a table, arm and cartridge combination (moving magnet, remember) around $1000~2000 from Clearaudio, Marantz, REGA, and a host of others.
$1000 Pounds sterling was a lot of money in 1974 ... the pound was worth about $5 (1972 = $US 4.86). So, we're taking a $US 4800 stereo here, back then.
Now what was the average industrial wage in the UK in 1974? According to the UK Department of Employment and Productivity, the " .. statutory minimum for “ordinary” hired regular whole-time men ..." was 20 Pounds 80 shillings. Or about $US 100.
In 1974 I was going to High School, and had a summer job running heavy equipment, at $2.50 an hour (mature men working with me made about the same ... I was a friend of the owner's kid and we both worked for him, so a sweetheart deal considering how green we were ... that's a $5,200 a year job).
During the school year I pumped gas Part-Time for $1.25 an hour ($2,600 a year for full time), and that was higher than minimum wage. After High School I started a business and made around $17,000 a year after I got on the ground, around 1978. I remember one time I told my dad how much I made that year, and I'll never forget the look on his face. I was making more than he was, at a job he started before I was born.
So, this stereo cost a full ten months wages for a starting man working full time in the UK, perhaps a good wage would be twice that ... 5 months wages. Were I working at the "good job" for the year, it would be around 11 months wages. A US worker, about the same ... the Canadian dollar was worth roughly the same as the $USD in 1974 (before that, it was worth more ... I remember going on vacation in the US around 1968 with my family, we got $1.10 US for a Canadian buck at that time). A hifi nut such as ourselves would have to scrimp AND save for years to afford that rig.
You're 1974 example is a $30,000+ stereo (or something similarly expensive) based on current industrial wages. That minimum equates to around $15~17 where I live today ($35,360 annually); with experienced guys making $20~35 (40~70,000 annually) for similar work. Now can you beat it?
You know, high end audio has it's merits; there are products on either side of the Quality & Value / Snake Oil fence, and a host somewhere in between. Some people bring up such exotica that costs "like a Porsche" but this does not bother me one whit. I do not care what stuff I cannot afford costs or what it does. If a manufacturer can get someone to buy it, whatever it is and whatever it costs, I say more power to him.
As for me, I prefer my feet firmly planted on the ground. And HiFi today, for careful and knowledgable buyers (or builders) is probably cheaper than it's ever been, for all segments of the market.
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OT personal remarks removed.AVE...
The blindfold test was designed in such a way, that audiophiles community had to choose their testers with golden eardrums and people who will make sure that the test won't be rigged in any way. Testing procedure was designed with multiple tests of various setups with different kinds of music. They still refused without giving the reason. They were afraid of the results...
Some people believe, and I call them idiots who listen to the music with their wallets...
I am skeptic because I had similar discussions with people who tried to build perpetuum mobile and prove that it works, or with people who tried to rape the physics with their zero point energy generators, homemade cold fusion reactors and other fake devices. Now I'm looking at audiovoodoo and I see that this is the same kind of psychological and sociological manipulation. Please, read my other posts in this topic about bogus inventions that are supposed to make your equipment sound better. Like my favorite cable elevators and Tube-O-Lator lacquer...
I demand proofs - do the blindfold test!
Can you prove it? Can you hear the difference between THD 1%, 0.1% and 0.01%? Do the test and ask your best friend for help - you can trust him/her...
Again, can you prove that you can hear the difference?
The blindfold test was designed in such a way, that audiophiles community had to choose their testers with golden eardrums and people who will make sure that the test won't be rigged in any way. Testing procedure was designed with multiple tests of various setups with different kinds of music. They still refused without giving the reason. They were afraid of the results...
Do you believe that special power cords, special speaker cords for more than 5000USD/meter and Tube-O-Lator lacquer will make your equipment sound better?
Some people believe, and I call them idiots who listen to the music with their wallets...
Actually I hear the difference between cheap earphones and canalphones, a bit more expensive earphones and full-sized headphones. The cheap Philips, Samsung and Pentagram earphones and canalphones sound terrible when compared to earphones made by Sennheiser. I also have two pairs of Philips headphones, that sound quite good. However I have no comparison to hi-end headphones or earphones - too expensive for me...
I am skeptic because I had similar discussions with people who tried to build perpetuum mobile and prove that it works, or with people who tried to rape the physics with their zero point energy generators, homemade cold fusion reactors and other fake devices. Now I'm looking at audiovoodoo and I see that this is the same kind of psychological and sociological manipulation. Please, read my other posts in this topic about bogus inventions that are supposed to make your equipment sound better. Like my favorite cable elevators and Tube-O-Lator lacquer...
I demand proofs - do the blindfold test!
How did a nice little thread on "gimmicks and high price tags" turn into yet another "all amps sound the same" "all caps sound the same" - "no they don't!" thread? Sigh.
I think this general topic is the source of many long ? (1000+ posts) threads. Like this one .. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/172673-bybee-quantum-purifier-measurement-analysis.html
At least it was nice to see such malarky debunked. Sources , amps (designs) and loudspeakers are a different story. At a certain price level , real improvements are minimal , the extra $$$ are being "ate up" by hype,marketing and esoteric materials. Also , certain companies capitalize on an ignorant populace by increasing said hype and marketing, "riding" on the memory of the former good products that brought them to fame (Bose ??? ).
OS
I have, in blind and sighted tests. Have also seen measurements that would bear that out.
But - I have also heard no difference at all where I expected to hear a big one. It's not an easy subject.
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That's been my experience too.
Quality of recording is the most obvious thing to hear.
Difference between speakers is fairly obvious
Difference between amps can be obvious or very subtle
Difference between a good beer and a bad beer - priceless
All my life, I have had no shortage of expensive hobbies. I still have them, actually ... I build fast cars & motorcycles, I'm serious about photography and hifi, who knows what else, I'm afraid to take stock any further. I like quality and choose as carefully as I know how to.
If I buy a tool I get a decent example ... nothing is more wasteful than replacing cheap junk with another piece of cheap junk, which ends up costing you twice and you still have cheap junk, when maybe a bit more the first time would have got you a tool for life.
And then there's my fishing habit, where the gear I own and use would put me in the top 1% of the "lunatic fringe" if there is such a thing for that sport.
The good stuff is expensive. It all costs way more than ordinary consumer gear, and there are good reasons for that. A person is entirely wrong if they equate the best that enthusiasts can buy with what is available in the stores mere mortals shop at, in any field, or compare prices based on those ordinary ad-driven and volume produced products. I think people are crazy to build bathrooms and kitchens like some do now; but I'm not going to equate my preferences to a clear diagnosis of their insanity. I have my own craziness to temper that.
If I could afford it, I would buy fast new cars, hire someone from California to build my bike, do an annual portrait of the family at a studio and buy art from a museum. But I would not have the benefits the hobby provides me, I would not learn about the latest 20-year old car I'm building to be absolutely fun to drive, or care about what two point two microfarads means. Yet, I can't blame someone who just buys the best, or what they are led to believe is the best, at full retail.
And I'm glad that our marketplace is robust and diverse enough that someone is there to sell them what they want, or think they want. SMD parts are not cheaper than thru-hole because they are low-tech, they are cheaper because millions are buying iPods and cellphones and computers. I'm benefitting from that, that's fine with me. If a competent HiFi company can build a "lunatic fringe" product and recover the R&D from the 10 sales they make, I know that such competent companies will incorporate what they learned in less expensive products. I'm okay with that too.
A creative and intelligent hobbyist or enthusiasts always wants to improve on things. That's just the way you are and it's better if you just accept it. Some people just buy whatever they're advised to or whatever their neighbours have, or care more about how it looks than how it works (and it would not be unusual for someone who knows the field to consider it junk, snake oil, or otherwise a poor value), and then spend the rest of their disposable money on crap from Wall-Mart every month. Like you really need that panini maker. But whatever, live and let live.
My advice on the topic: it is what it is. Enjoy the DIY audio hobby, or the retail hifi products, it's rewarding. Hobbies don't make you rich monetarily, but they enrich your life in untold ways. Forget about everything everyone else does. You will be much happier.
If I buy a tool I get a decent example ... nothing is more wasteful than replacing cheap junk with another piece of cheap junk, which ends up costing you twice and you still have cheap junk, when maybe a bit more the first time would have got you a tool for life.
And then there's my fishing habit, where the gear I own and use would put me in the top 1% of the "lunatic fringe" if there is such a thing for that sport.
The good stuff is expensive. It all costs way more than ordinary consumer gear, and there are good reasons for that. A person is entirely wrong if they equate the best that enthusiasts can buy with what is available in the stores mere mortals shop at, in any field, or compare prices based on those ordinary ad-driven and volume produced products. I think people are crazy to build bathrooms and kitchens like some do now; but I'm not going to equate my preferences to a clear diagnosis of their insanity. I have my own craziness to temper that.
If I could afford it, I would buy fast new cars, hire someone from California to build my bike, do an annual portrait of the family at a studio and buy art from a museum. But I would not have the benefits the hobby provides me, I would not learn about the latest 20-year old car I'm building to be absolutely fun to drive, or care about what two point two microfarads means. Yet, I can't blame someone who just buys the best, or what they are led to believe is the best, at full retail.
And I'm glad that our marketplace is robust and diverse enough that someone is there to sell them what they want, or think they want. SMD parts are not cheaper than thru-hole because they are low-tech, they are cheaper because millions are buying iPods and cellphones and computers. I'm benefitting from that, that's fine with me. If a competent HiFi company can build a "lunatic fringe" product and recover the R&D from the 10 sales they make, I know that such competent companies will incorporate what they learned in less expensive products. I'm okay with that too.
A creative and intelligent hobbyist or enthusiasts always wants to improve on things. That's just the way you are and it's better if you just accept it. Some people just buy whatever they're advised to or whatever their neighbours have, or care more about how it looks than how it works (and it would not be unusual for someone who knows the field to consider it junk, snake oil, or otherwise a poor value), and then spend the rest of their disposable money on crap from Wall-Mart every month. Like you really need that panini maker. But whatever, live and let live.
My advice on the topic: it is what it is. Enjoy the DIY audio hobby, or the retail hifi products, it's rewarding. Hobbies don't make you rich monetarily, but they enrich your life in untold ways. Forget about everything everyone else does. You will be much happier.
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Nope , speaker upgrades tend to have a much larger impact on sound quality . Better drivers , as a "side effect" , allow one to better discern the differences in source's and electronics.
The choice of caps in a crossover is audible as well , I swapped electro's for poly's (4.7u @100v) and the improvement was audible , especially at higher listening levels. On an amp's input cap, this same "swap" made no difference . The "bootstrap cap" on a amp is one instance that can be heard , swapping a cheap chinese NPO with a panasonic EE series is audible. I won't go to the blackgate level , but those caps do change electrically as the carbon "contaminants"... "bed down"
.I will still use better components in the electronics .. not for the audiophile aspect , but to increase MTBF.
OS
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I do the things I do because I can and I enjoy doing them. I do a great many things, not just endlessly building the same amp over and over...
If you were here, in my living room, I would challenge your ability to hear the difference between two amps of different topology. I would test those 'mountain man' ears you have.
Forgone is the result though and without me ruining the surprise, let me say that I would not be disappointed.
I do the things I do because I can and I enjoy doing them. I do a great many things, not just endlessly building the same amp over and over...
If you were here, in my living room, I would challenge your ability to hear the difference between two amps of different topology. I would test those 'mountain man' ears you have.
Forgone is the result though and without me ruining the surprise, let me say that I would not be disappointed.
This might be true for your system it will not bode well with others ....
I do the things I do because I can and I enjoy doing them. I do a great many things, not just endlessly building the same amp over and over...
But that is exactly what you are doing ??? http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/180749-patchwork-6-power-supply-upgrade-2.html#post2433220
It worked , and sounded good ... why "fix it if it ain't broken" ? I acknowledge your DIY superiority "because you can" . But why ? A belief that a power supply upgrade can increase either fidelity or MTBF ? Same for me , I wanted the "testbed" to actually prove or debunk the topology debate. I now have that and have come to some sobering conclusions. I have 5 amps ,(only 2 released) none are in error , but sound different. Power supply refinements DO have an effect , more noticable than topology.Ultra Low THD is not a panacea in itself , the (absence) or the spectra of the distortion products is much more important. That old Kenwood sounded as good in the 70's as carlo's original DX does to the DIY community now , and I know why. Add dual supply's / cap multipliers and a CCS to it and you WILL hear the difference , especially with modern digital sources.
OS
True Hi end
Tru hi end electronics have better component quality and sound quality. They are built to go the distance. Older Marantz and MacIntosh come to mind as do early Klipsch and JBL. Now we have turds in Tiffany boxes. People not only get the government they deserve, they get the consumer goods they deserve also.
Tru hi end electronics have better component quality and sound quality. They are built to go the distance. Older Marantz and MacIntosh come to mind as do early Klipsch and JBL. Now we have turds in Tiffany boxes. People not only get the government they deserve, they get the consumer goods they deserve also.
My GF's dad owns ada...audio design associates.
I bet their stuff will put all the big manufacturers stuff to shame.
They are hand made in house in a local facility, quality and sound from them is amazing!
name another home stereo amp that does 600rms per channel
Products: Home Theater: Whole-House Power Amplifiers: MPA-502 - ADA
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