Has this ever happened to you? You fall in love with the way a record *sounds*, but just can't stand the music. A friend of mine brought Linkin Park's "Meteora", and while i can't stand that band the production is so good i gave it a few listens before i really had to change it 
. It's a pitty, i know some great bands (take Gravity Kills for that kind of music), that doesn't get that kind of recording quality, and most probably never will.
The reverse works too... my previous copy of Pink Floyds' "The final cut" (not the digitally remastered one) was pretty much a digitalization of the vinyl LP... love that album, but when i finally heard the new version it was like removing a q-tip from my ears.
. It's a pitty, i know some great bands (take Gravity Kills for that kind of music), that doesn't get that kind of recording quality, and most probably never will.The reverse works too... my previous copy of Pink Floyds' "The final cut" (not the digitally remastered one) was pretty much a digitalization of the vinyl LP... love that album, but when i finally heard the new version it was like removing a q-tip from my ears.
Find this very hard to comment on. If the music is shite, I'll very quickly "turn off" and will tend to ignore the production. The entire system goes into shutdown
Crystal clear and precise reproduction of dross is still dross. I'm afraid "garbage in, garbage out" still holds true here, even for well produced garbage.
Of course, the opposite also holds. Take "Anchorage" from Michelle Shocked, "Short, Sharp, Shocked". Absolutely stunning and sublime track. Georgeous piece of music, rarely listen to it cos the production is shite. BUT I rate it as a perfect piece of the songwriters art (and if you've ever heard her sing it live...)
Converesly, there are Chesky and numerous other special demo tracks that may be technically the ducks guts, but if I don't like the music, forget it.
People often waffle on about high end stereo systems giving them goosebumps and chills down the neck. To me, this is crap.
Play me Jennifer Warnes doing "The Song of Bernadette" even on a shitty midi system and I'll get chills and shivers, no lack of prodution or reproduction can kill the feeling, images and so forth that this song evokes. To say you need a megadollar system to give you chills is to say that you're academic with little/no appreciation for a good song.
Of course, this is Just IMHO and should be filtered through 4 beers and a large glass of good South Australian red.
Enjoy the brilliant music and sod the production I say.
Wine will make the production irrelevant, crap songwriting is unredeemable.
Drew
Crystal clear and precise reproduction of dross is still dross. I'm afraid "garbage in, garbage out" still holds true here, even for well produced garbage.
Of course, the opposite also holds. Take "Anchorage" from Michelle Shocked, "Short, Sharp, Shocked". Absolutely stunning and sublime track. Georgeous piece of music, rarely listen to it cos the production is shite. BUT I rate it as a perfect piece of the songwriters art (and if you've ever heard her sing it live...)
Converesly, there are Chesky and numerous other special demo tracks that may be technically the ducks guts, but if I don't like the music, forget it.
People often waffle on about high end stereo systems giving them goosebumps and chills down the neck. To me, this is crap.
Play me Jennifer Warnes doing "The Song of Bernadette" even on a shitty midi system and I'll get chills and shivers, no lack of prodution or reproduction can kill the feeling, images and so forth that this song evokes. To say you need a megadollar system to give you chills is to say that you're academic with little/no appreciation for a good song.
Of course, this is Just IMHO and should be filtered through 4 beers and a large glass of good South Australian red.
Enjoy the brilliant music and sod the production I say.
Wine will make the production irrelevant, crap songwriting is unredeemable.
Drew
DrewP said:
Agreed.
I play it a lot and don't care whatsoever about the production quality. Maybe I'm lucky because the first copy I ever found was a Japanese import at $A35, so maybe it's been tweaked. Not the best production, but, not vomitous.
Arkansas is my fave disc and I have the entire catalogue now except for Artists Make Lousy Slaves. Don't have a spare copy?
As for live, did you see her at Easter? Awesome, but the only problem was the set length was too restricted by the Bluesfest format. I was one row back from the front fence, just off centre. Didn't even matter that I was nearly drowned on the way in....
Hell my crappy standard Fairmont sound system gives me goosebumps
Do NOT get me started about the crap that audiophiles play over and over and over. And we can start with Casino Royale.
When I was in grad school, I helped make ends meet by building amps and preamps. It came as a shock to me that nearly all my customers had unbelievably elaborate and expensive sound systems, and averaged 10 records apiece. And the records always included such musical "gems" </sarcasm off> as The Track Record, Jazz at the Pawnshop, and Amanda McBroom. There may have been an exception, but damned if I can remember even one. This was the beginning of my continuing deep cynicism regarding high-end audio.
When I was in grad school, I helped make ends meet by building amps and preamps. It came as a shock to me that nearly all my customers had unbelievably elaborate and expensive sound systems, and averaged 10 records apiece. And the records always included such musical "gems" </sarcasm off> as The Track Record, Jazz at the Pawnshop, and Amanda McBroom. There may have been an exception, but damned if I can remember even one. This was the beginning of my continuing deep cynicism regarding high-end audio.
SY said:
Well, the Track Record is worth having as a test disc, but not to actually listen to, and Cardiganed Swedes Do Bad Jazz makes a muso friend of mine laugh. He swears it has to be a pysstake*.
It's fun on boring days sometimes to go to a High End store to audition gear, then ask to play "Won't Get Fooled Again" by the Who, loud, and watch the cat-bottom faces appear on the saleshacks.
*This was the spelling I learned whilst undergoing 'sensitivity training' at the local wymyn's collective.
Do you know Japanese famous audio magazine, Stereo Sound?
In the magazine, one audio critic visited an audiophile who is owning a dream-set of high-end audio equipment at home. If I name the names of the equipment, everybody will easily know them. By the way, the audiophile said to the critic, I hardly listen to songs from the beginning to the end, not even one song. I just listen to the parts where there are nice sounds. -- The end of a non-fiction --
In the magazine, one audio critic visited an audiophile who is owning a dream-set of high-end audio equipment at home. If I name the names of the equipment, everybody will easily know them. By the way, the audiophile said to the critic, I hardly listen to songs from the beginning to the end, not even one song. I just listen to the parts where there are nice sounds. -- The end of a non-fiction --
Taking The P_iss....
When the owner was happy and leaving the room with the dealer I piped up and said,"Do you mind if I crank it on some of my music ?" - Yeah sure, go ahead they said.
Not needing any further encouragement I played some Hendrix and then put on 'Who Are You' at flat bikky.
The system was in a very big room and the couch I sat on was a good 10 metres back from the speakers.
It is to be noted that this system has servo controlled 4000W available from 16Hz-120Hz, and AR-150's were supplying mid/highs.
On this track, the kick drum was seriously kicking up from under the couch, and the bass lines were shaking me such that my vision was blurring.
This mega thing really opened my experience to what is possible in a serious replay system.
I sat there shaking my head in both enjoyment and disbelief, and as the other two walked back into the room they observed me doing this.
"What's wrong ?!!!!" they both said in panicked voices.
Calm as a cucumber my reply was "Nothings wrong, not anything".
Sadly it was then time to drive back to Perth.
On another note - TOKYO SKA PARADISE ORCHESTRA
has to be the biggest p_isstake that I have heard, but really good musical performances and really good production.
Eric.
Note to Sys Admin - Auto censorship is a bit extreme sometimes.
Shitty is acceptable but P_rick (*****) and P_iss (****) are not - go figure.
A few years ago I spent a day setting up and positioning a Genesis I system and had to put up with some kind of crap quartet recording all day long.
When the owner was happy and leaving the room with the dealer I piped up and said,"Do you mind if I crank it on some of my music ?" - Yeah sure, go ahead they said.
Not needing any further encouragement I played some Hendrix and then put on 'Who Are You' at flat bikky.
The system was in a very big room and the couch I sat on was a good 10 metres back from the speakers.
It is to be noted that this system has servo controlled 4000W available from 16Hz-120Hz, and AR-150's were supplying mid/highs.
On this track, the kick drum was seriously kicking up from under the couch, and the bass lines were shaking me such that my vision was blurring.
This mega thing really opened my experience to what is possible in a serious replay system.
I sat there shaking my head in both enjoyment and disbelief, and as the other two walked back into the room they observed me doing this.
"What's wrong ?!!!!" they both said in panicked voices.
Calm as a cucumber my reply was "Nothings wrong, not anything".
Sadly it was then time to drive back to Perth.
On another note - TOKYO SKA PARADISE ORCHESTRA
has to be the biggest p_isstake that I have heard, but really good musical performances and really good production.
Eric.
Note to Sys Admin - Auto censorship is a bit extreme sometimes.
Shitty is acceptable but P_rick (*****) and P_iss (****) are not - go figure.
Good to see some common sense here It's the same for me - i love music, and all the hifi of the world it's just means to an end; do we listen to sound or do we listen to music?
I brought this up because it bothered me the kind of musicians that get the best production work. It's pretty sad, there's a gazillon bands i'd LOVE to hear recorded like this, instead of the latest boyband knockoff.
So, let's change the subject: "Great sounding records... with great, great music?" Peter Gabriel's "Up" is absolutely amazing, musically and soundwise...
It's the same for me - i love music, and all the hifi of the world it's just means to an end; do we listen to sound or do we listen to music?I brought this up because it bothered me the kind of musicians that get the best production work. It's pretty sad, there's a gazillon bands i'd LOVE to hear recorded like this, instead of the latest boyband knockoff.
So, let's change the subject: "Great sounding records... with great, great music?"
Peter Gabriel's "Up" is absolutely amazing, musically and soundwise...Sincere apologies Lisandro_P, I may have indavertantly threadjacked you with the very first reply. Twas non intentional.
To be sure, much good production is wasted on low quality artists. Given that I dislike the man's self loving and pompous attitude and feel that he's not fit to wear one of Sinatra's worn out socks I have to point the finger at Robbie Williams. The songs may be tolerable (more so in the case of the covers) and the production quality fine but being in posession of a 6-pack, a suit, slicked back hair and an attitude does not mke you a great lounge/jazz singer.
Others have done this stuff well, Robbie just does it attractively (for women 14-35). Guess what sells?
As I said, most of the good production of dross artists simply passes my by. I choose not to listen to heavily commercial mainstream rock radio more than is necessary as the "classics" they play I likely already own and the current chart toppers are usu completely missable. A friend did tell me thatthe production on the recent Aqua albums was very nice. Pity aboutthe music?
drew
To be sure, much good production is wasted on low quality artists. Given that I dislike the man's self loving and pompous attitude and feel that he's not fit to wear one of Sinatra's worn out socks I have to point the finger at Robbie Williams. The songs may be tolerable (more so in the case of the covers) and the production quality fine but being in posession of a 6-pack, a suit, slicked back hair and an attitude does not mke you a great lounge/jazz singer.
Others have done this stuff well, Robbie just does it attractively (for women 14-35). Guess what sells?
As I said, most of the good production of dross artists simply passes my by. I choose not to listen to heavily commercial mainstream rock radio more than is necessary as the "classics" they play I likely already own and the current chart toppers are usu completely missable. A friend did tell me thatthe production on the recent Aqua albums was very nice. Pity aboutthe music?
drew
Eric: So I assume your avatar is a photo of that event? My own preference is Live at Leeds, especially My Generation and the segue into bits of Tommy.
Regarding the autocensor, I had a similar complaint a few weeks ago, when I talked about a pin stabbing something (I used the more common verb for what a pin does). Getting that to work right is, I'll guess, about number 6.748 on the to-do list.
Regarding the autocensor, I had a similar complaint a few weeks ago, when I talked about a pin stabbing something (I used the more common verb for what a pin does). Getting that to work right is, I'll guess, about number 6.748 on the to-do list.
Mr Who .
Actually that's a photo of me being assaulted by my latest home system.
I'm with you - I like all the Who stuff and have most of it on cd or vinyl.
I have always found 'Who are you" to be a pretty good test track with some pretty serious low bass, and it needs a good system to reproduce those Keith Moon big cymbal hits nicely - many systems don't.
Eric.
Yeah, pretty much like that.
Actually that's a photo of me being assaulted by my latest home system.
I'm with you - I like all the Who stuff and have most of it on cd or vinyl.
I have always found 'Who are you" to be a pretty good test track with some pretty serious low bass, and it needs a good system to reproduce those Keith Moon big cymbal hits nicely - many systems don't.
Yeas, that's why I mentioned your experience.
Eric.
For me, it would have to be anything by Steely Dan, and in a way they are the perfect band for this thread.
Everything is so over-produced/ tweeked/ recorded/ overdubbed, that the songs themselves become totally sterile, with no hint of emotion or creativity left.
I'm sure Eric is old enough, like me, to remember the time in the early nineties when every touring FOH engineer would check the system alignment with Nightfly, then, as soon as they were happy, take it off and put some decent music on.
Everything is so over-produced/ tweeked/ recorded/ overdubbed, that the songs themselves become totally sterile, with no hint of emotion or creativity left.
I'm sure Eric is old enough, like me, to remember the time in the early nineties when every touring FOH engineer would check the system alignment with Nightfly, then, as soon as they were happy, take it off and put some decent music on.
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