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Old 14th July 2003, 06:34 PM   #21
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It is our choice to accept or refuse anything we read. The reason I edited and re-edited the post multiple times, was because I wanted to use minimum words for maximum content. Did I succeed?

The vibrational influence may be even harder to accept than the difference in resistors sound, but when you once realize its existance, your approach to audio design changes.
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Old 14th July 2003, 06:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel
The vibrational influence may be even harder to accept than the difference in resistors sound, but when you once realize its existance, your approach to audio design changes.
if you haven't demonstrated its existence, how can we possibly accept it?

If you could show, convincingly may I add, that damping of electronic devices using aluminum oxide and sil pads has audioable impact of their electronic properties / performance, you would have made a HUGE (no, GIGANTIC) contribution to human being's understanding of electronics.

The fact that we haven't heard of anything remotely close to what you are proclaiming should dampen your enthusiasim a little bit,

But that's not to say that billions of people and millions of scientists couldn't be wrong and you couldn't be right. But the odds aren't exactly in your favor, if you ask me.
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Old 14th July 2003, 07:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by millwood


if you haven't demonstrated its existence, how can we possibly accept it?

If you could show, convincingly may I add, that damping of electronic devices using aluminum oxide and sil pads has audioable impact of their electronic properties / performance, you would have made a HUGE (no, GIGANTIC) contribution to human being's understanding of electronics.

The fact that we haven't heard of anything remotely close to what you are proclaiming should dampen your enthusiasim a little bit,

But that's not to say that billions of people and millions of scientists couldn't be wrong and you couldn't be right. But the odds aren't exactly in your favor, if you ask me.
I should ask you again, to speak for yourself only.

How possibly on this forum can I demonstrate its existence? I can only suggest its existance and its absolutely up to you to check it out. I assume you didn't do anything in that area yet. If you didn't, you cannot also demonstrate lack of its existance.

It's very easy to critisize and joke about someone elses efforts, like starting a silly thread and quoting others. With that you didn't do any contribution at all, but created conflict. What were the odds for that?
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Old 14th July 2003, 07:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel

The vibrational influence...

Once I put my power amp on one crappy speaker and turned up the volume. You know what happened in the sound? Nothing because I was using Silpad below the chips. Very romantic...

JH
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Old 14th July 2003, 07:25 PM   #25
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I guess you didn't see that thread:
Suggestions for lid material

I don't care were did you put your amp, as long as you have fun doing that. I also don't understand what issues you have with my comments regarding vibrations. If you don't believe or observe its influence, why are you concerned that I do? I also believe there are other forum members who will make an efort to investigate it further, instead of only joking about it.
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Old 14th July 2003, 07:36 PM   #26
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During a long stint at boeing aerospace we had to test electronic assys. using vibration on what we called "the shaker".It was a skid that was designed to move the test subjects at frequencies from 1 cps(hertz) to greater than 30K hertz.The circuit was active and monitored while testing.Yes vibrations do cause changes in the response , but these were lets say greater amplitude vibrations, probably much greater than a sound wave (in a normal listening room enviorment) would produce.The greatest effect was on caps, and it was found out that the peaks and dips of the response werent really constant between like circuits.BTW this is a MIL spec requirement that all circuit be burned in for a 24 hr. period then given the shake test.We did find out that a softer potting material gave much better responses but never completly eliminated the out of base line curve response.
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Old 14th July 2003, 07:36 PM   #27
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Peter, I think that Al2O3 insulators are more
vibration transparent than silpads.

The silpad is a composite of a polymer binder with SiO2 or some other solid material with high heat transfer capacity. Composites usually dampens vibrations quite good, expecially the polymeric part of it.

/rickard
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Old 14th July 2003, 07:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by rikkitikkitavi
Peter, I think that Al2O3 insulators are more
vibration transparent than silpads.

The silpad is a composite of a polymer binder with SiO2 or some other solid material with high heat transfer capacity. Composites usually dampens vibrations quite good, expecially the polymeric part of it.

/rickard
That's exactly my point. They more more vibration transparent and it can be heard.
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Old 14th July 2003, 08:07 PM   #29
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Default shakey logic

"They more more vibration transparent"

What in the heck does that mean? Ummm.... there are screws holding the device to the chassis as well, aren't there. There might be a couple of other considerations as well, but I don't want to bias or taint Peter's independent R and D, since all his design decisions are independent of information from forum discussions.
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Old 14th July 2003, 08:15 PM   #30
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That's exactly my point. They more more vibration transparent and it can be heard.
So what is the origin of these vibrations, and why do you want to hear them??

Peter, your hearing borders on superhuman ability. I am not in any position to state that what you hear does not exist, so I am not going to criticize you about it. However, you claim to hear things that I've never heard anyone else say they can hear. Also, since I haven't read all of your 5000+ posts, I don't know how you conduct your listening tests. However, if you, for example, change the feedback resistors, and thereby the gain, and don't volume match two side-by-side amps that are different only in the feedback resistor (i.e. their volume), and listen to them virtually at the same sitting, then your conclusions don't hold any validity to a lot of us, especially when some of the changes you hear don't sound like something that could be audible to mortals.

I realize that you are doing all this for yourself, and aren't concerned about proving anything to us (i.e., if you hear it, that's all that matters), but please don't expect a lot of us to accept these things you hear if you listen to a component, break it down, change something, go back and listen to it later, and suggest there's a change. It just doesn't work like that. Hell, my system changes daily depending on my mental/emotional state before I press "play" (and other unknown reasons), and that's without making ANY changes to the hardware.
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