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Old 12th September 2010, 11:54 PM   #11
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Hi Cal,
Thanks for the link. Now for one not held captive in a book. -Chris

Its not captive in the book - at the bottom of the linked page is an index to the various sections of the glossary including - most helpfully - a reverse glossary ie "if I am hearing this effect on the music, how do I describe it?"
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Old 13th September 2010, 07:59 PM   #12
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Hi aardvarkash10,
Okay, thanks.
I very foolishly decided to read the article and ended up a little stoned feeling. Couldn't wait to get out of there to be honest with you. All I can say is that they haven't changed a bit over time. I'll head back and follow the link.

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Why?

-Chris
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Old 14th September 2010, 01:22 AM   #13
jkeny is offline jkeny  Ireland
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Before discussing the way the listening tests are conducted is it not essential that the listening tests be conducted before the measurement test results are revealed? This has already been raised over on the other thread but was curtailed by the rules of that thread.
Avoiding Framing is what this is about

If the measurement tests are revealed before the listening tests then the expectations of the listeners will already have been set.

No measurable difference will predispose the listener to finding no audible difference in the listening tests.

What's the plan here? Are the listening tests being done before the measurement results are revealed?
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Old 14th September 2010, 01:44 AM   #14
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depends how the listening test is designed. If a double blind including a bybee, a "placebo bybee" and an unchanged source is used (or indeed and better still, if the DUT is un-identified to the subjects AND the test administrator) then there is every reason to expect a reliable outcome from a WELL DESIGNED AND MANAGED test.

By unidentified, I mean that participants have no idea what the device is, who made it and what, if any, claims are made for its efficacy.

Beyond that, subjects should be screened for previous knowledge or preconceptions - not to exclude them necessarily, but to ensure that any bias is identified and controlled. Again, its an issue of test design and indicates the level of planning and understanding that has to be done BEFORE sweepingly announcing that listening tests will cure all and can be easily done...
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Old 14th September 2010, 01:52 AM   #15
jkeny is offline jkeny  Ireland
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I really think you are ignoring a fundamental if you ignore this timing issue! Everything else you mention is laudable but why avoid a simple timing issue?

You cannot do anything about people's pre-conceived notions but why introduce another one by releasing the measurements before the listening.
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Old 14th September 2010, 01:57 AM   #16
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Hi aardvarkash10,


Why?

-Chris
too many incomplete projects and too much time spent in here!
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Old 14th September 2010, 01:59 AM   #17
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I really think you are ignoring a fundamental if you ignore this timing issue! Everything else you mention is laudable but why avoid a simple timing issue?

You cannot do anything about people's pre-conceived notions but why introduce another one by releasing the measurements before the listening.
Its not avoided. Its controlled for. Get over it. Accept that EVERYONE going into a test brings prior knowledge and bias. You can't eliminate it, you CAN control for it.
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Old 14th September 2010, 02:00 AM   #18
SY is offline SY  United States
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Too late. Curl has already said that it measures no different than a resistor and that you can't hear it without peeking.
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Old 14th September 2010, 02:05 AM   #19
jkeny is offline jkeny  Ireland
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Too late. Curl has already said that it measures no different than a resistor
So why are you bothering? What's the point of this whole excercise?
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and that you can't hear it without peeking.
Are you being serious now?

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Its not avoided. Its controlled for. Get over it.
Jeez, are you conducting or participating in the listening tests? You really sound like your running the whole show!

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Old 14th September 2010, 02:07 AM   #20
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bugger. Now we are all contaminated...
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