I think you are right. What other technical threads do you see where individuals don't just eventually do the tests and report on them. Here we see the same test, resistance of the resistor in parallel with the "actual" device, done over and over again. That's why I say this game is rigged and the usual suspects on this thread should hand over both the listening and the measurement task to someone who doesn't have a vested interest in the outcome. It can still be people here at DIY audio, but other people. It seems only fair to me. I agree with JC.
Those are accusations. Name the riggers and their vested interest please. Usual suspects, who are they? Which is their secret agenda? We don't want them to manipulate the forum and mislead the readers. Speak up if you have evidence on such an implied ploy.
I have to say "ditto" to Salas' post above. How do you know that the tests will be rigged? How do you know that the people who have volunteered to test these are biased?
Is this simply jumping to conclusions about those involved? Do you have evidence or some proof to back this up? Some important reason? Please let us know.
Is this simply jumping to conclusions about those involved? Do you have evidence or some proof to back this up? Some important reason? Please let us know.
Ah! But you see, he read it on the internet!
In other words, personal anecdotes are HS and not evidence of anything. But you know that.
Perhaps I spoke with hyperbole. Perhaps I am wrong and that person can be trusted. I have not noticed any impartiality by that person in other threads here. Only a deep, closed, and ignorant attitude on this subject. I say, why take the chance of having the results questioned because of the attitude of he/she conducting the test.
Even if that person performs splendidly in retrospect does it mean it was wise to give that person the keys to the kingdom. It is no different to the justice system in which jurors are chosen based on their impartiality. Everyone knows that even the most well respected member in the community will be excused from the jury if he/she is intimately connected with the defendant.
In this case the defendant would be Bybee's device and the underlying principle it is proposed to work on, namely, non-locality and high temperature super-conductivity.
This jury system is an example of USA law. I don't know about how it works elsewhere. Is this a confusing idea to anyone here? And please do not manipulate the response so that only the case of hyperbole is concentrated on. I have seen how that goes and is a diversion from what I'm talking about here, which is the real essential point.
Very good. I'm feeling better. I still don't see why someone who is known to have a strong opinion on the subject is involved with it. (That is, if he still is - I'm out of the loop on what's being decided.) I would never consider myself for such a position because of that reason. It just seems like a no-brainer and it would seem like it would be a no-brainer for that person also.
I'm sure someone will catch this. I did offer myself to help with the listening test. But it was only to try to balance out what I perceived as a one-sided administation of it. Its always better to try to get as close to all neutral people as you can find rather getting an extreme and then balance it by the opposite extreme, which was me.
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Salas
Then why is there such dogged resistance to letting the DBT participants become well acquainted with the sound of the system,
either before or after the changes,as Exeric suggested ?
Surely the listening results will be just as statistically relevant?
For that matter, why not do this with all DBTs? Not everybody can perform like a trained seal on command.
Many members will tell you that these differences are more easily heard when you are familiar with the equipment involved in a relaxed atmosphere.
I agree also that Sy of all people, has been possibly the most vehement anti subjectivist poster in this forum, as demonstrated over very many different threads.
I do not however doubt his sincerity or technical ability.
One gets the appearance that everytime someone in the forum reports hearing something that can not be readily explained by the Engineers of the forum, that they are quickly made to feel sorry that they ever bothered posting.
In fact there is at least one U.K member who is downright rude and sarcastic, but never appears to earn a reprimand,or banning from the forum like G.K. and a few others have been.
SandyK.
Maybe I better be the last to "test" them.
Before that, i'd like to get a whack at them. Daniel has kit to test, and Chris & i'd just like to listen.
dave
SandyK
I don't decide the standards, I don't participate in the experiment. I counted the declared persons. One is SY doing the first tech run and assembling a DBT panel, the second is Tubelab George running the tech only again in the pro RF lab we works for, then is panomaniac applying the devices on his Altecs that he knows very well. About methods they are going to use they are the ones to describe in detail and explain the reasons of choice. If I forgot someone or gave a wrong account of the general programmed work that I have read in the posts up to now please correct me.
About the last part, I can't know who you mean, all can attack ideas but not persons, if its a moderation thing about someone being rude, send us report button alerts each time he offends in your opinion so we get the picture. Moderation and members are not an open discussion theme and there is a rule about it.
I don't decide the standards, I don't participate in the experiment. I counted the declared persons. One is SY doing the first tech run and assembling a DBT panel, the second is Tubelab George running the tech only again in the pro RF lab we works for, then is panomaniac applying the devices on his Altecs that he knows very well. About methods they are going to use they are the ones to describe in detail and explain the reasons of choice. If I forgot someone or gave a wrong account of the general programmed work that I have read in the posts up to now please correct me.
About the last part, I can't know who you mean, all can attack ideas but not persons, if its a moderation thing about someone being rude, send us report button alerts each time he offends in your opinion so we get the picture. Moderation and members are not an open discussion theme and there is a rule about it.
Thanks for responding to this - I know myself how difficult it is to offer a description of how things sound.
I have experience of the same kinds of changes in my own development work. So here I can follow what you're saying.
That's not a subjective impression, that's an interpretation based on what you think might be going on. And yeah, I would concur that probably is what's happening.
As far as I know, you can't take out IMD once its occurred - its like a trapdoor function in cryptography. But then again, its not necessary to take it out - the Bybees could be preventing it occuring in the first place by taking down the level of RF. RF (picked up on your speaker leads) intermodulation with the signal is possibly happening in your poweramp and the Bybees are reducing the RF level and hence the resulting intermod.
So to test such a hypothesis, the effects of the Bybees should vary considerably with the type of poweramp used. I'd expect a valve amp to be largely immune to being 'Bybeed' if my hypothesis is correct. What amp were you using?
You might want to read things a little more closely; there hasn't been any "dogged resistance" mentioned anywhere here, that's your imagination. I am NOT running any kind of listening tests, just giving people an opportunity to hear them in my system. Any sort of DBTs will be done elsewhere, that's up to Cal (who is paying for this). And if you think that my prejudice against ripoffs, scams, gullibility, and pseudoscience is crippling to my ability to present meaningful measurements, you certainly have the opportunity to go buy some for yourself, repeat what I do, and show the world that my work was incorrect.
As far as naming names of persons who might have a preconceived idea about this subject that would bias them on this particular subject I'll only say this: I've got no problem whatsoever with Tubelab George and panomaniac. Do the math.
Further claimed enhancements for Bybees
I came accross this suggestion from the website Tweekgeek, a seller of Bybees.
Tip: The performance of Bybee Quantum Purifiers can be greatly enhanced by wrapping them in Stillpoints ERS, placing them inside a copper tube only an inch or so longer than the Bybees themselves, and wrapping the tube in Stillpoints ERS. cover the finished product with shrink tubing for safety as the ERS is conductive. To our ears, this essentially doubles their performance, and works especially well with the Gold Bybees.
Of course, they sell Stillpoints ERS, too. Maybe this claimed enhancement could be tried after testing the naked Bybee!
I came accross this suggestion from the website Tweekgeek, a seller of Bybees.
Tip: The performance of Bybee Quantum Purifiers can be greatly enhanced by wrapping them in Stillpoints ERS, placing them inside a copper tube only an inch or so longer than the Bybees themselves, and wrapping the tube in Stillpoints ERS. cover the finished product with shrink tubing for safety as the ERS is conductive. To our ears, this essentially doubles their performance, and works especially well with the Gold Bybees.
Of course, they sell Stillpoints ERS, too. Maybe this claimed enhancement could be tried after testing the naked Bybee!
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