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Old 2nd September 2010, 12:46 AM   #231
sandyK is offline sandyK  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salas View Post
Do you realize that there will be 2 technical runs and 2 panel DBT runs by 3 main operators in 3 different places in America?
Salas
Then why is there such dogged resistance to letting the DBT participants become well acquainted with the sound of the system,
either before or after the changes,as Exeric suggested ?
Surely the listening results will be just as statistically relevant?
For that matter, why not do this with all DBTs? Not everybody can perform like a trained seal on command.
Many members will tell you that these differences are more easily heard when you are familiar with the equipment involved in a relaxed atmosphere.
I agree also that Sy of all people, has been possibly the most vehement anti subjectivist poster in this forum, as demonstrated over very many different threads.
I do not however doubt his sincerity or technical ability.
One gets the appearance that everytime someone in the forum reports hearing something that can not be readily explained by the Engineers of the forum, that they are quickly made to feel sorry that they ever bothered posting.
In fact there is at least one U.K member who is downright rude and sarcastic, but never appears to earn a reprimand,or banning from the forum like G.K. and a few others have been.

SandyK.
 
Old 2nd September 2010, 01:03 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Weldon View Post
Maybe I better be the last to "test" them.
Before that, i'd like to get a whack at them. Daniel has kit to test, and Chris & i'd just like to listen.

dave
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Old 2nd September 2010, 01:08 AM   #233
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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SandyK

I don't decide the standards, I don't participate in the experiment. I counted the declared persons. One is SY doing the first tech run and assembling a DBT panel, the second is Tubelab George running the tech only again in the pro RF lab we works for, then is panomaniac applying the devices on his Altecs that he knows very well. About methods they are going to use they are the ones to describe in detail and explain the reasons of choice. If I forgot someone or gave a wrong account of the general programmed work that I have read in the posts up to now please correct me.

About the last part, I can't know who you mean, all can attack ideas but not persons, if its a moderation thing about someone being rude, send us report button alerts each time he offends in your opinion so we get the picture. Moderation and members are not an open discussion theme and there is a rule about it.
 
Old 2nd September 2010, 01:11 AM   #234
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Before that, i'd like to get a whack at them. Daniel has kit to test, and Chris & i'd just like to listen.

dave
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Old 2nd September 2010, 01:16 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exeric View Post
It is very difficult to characterize the sound but I will try.
Thanks for responding to this - I know myself how difficult it is to offer a description of how things sound.

Quote:
However after the modification it was clear that some of the electronic-ness of the sound was removed. It surprised me because I hadn't noticed a lot of that before the mod. There was no tilt in frequency distribution, in loudness, in dynamics or anything else that I could pinpoint. But there was a feeling of notes emerging more distinctly out of silence and being able to follow individual instruments in ensembles more easily.
I have experience of the same kinds of changes in my own development work. So here I can follow what you're saying.

Quote:
This created the subjective impression that there might be less intermodulation distortion after the mod.
That's not a subjective impression, that's an interpretation based on what you think might be going on. And yeah, I would concur that probably is what's happening.

Quote:
I don't how that could be because one of the biggest effects with the bybees was with them installed directly on the individual woofer and tweeter in my Spica TC-50s. How can you remove that kind of distortion after the signal has gotten to that point?
As far as I know, you can't take out IMD once its occurred - its like a trapdoor function in cryptography. But then again, its not necessary to take it out - the Bybees could be preventing it occuring in the first place by taking down the level of RF. RF (picked up on your speaker leads) intermodulation with the signal is possibly happening in your poweramp and the Bybees are reducing the RF level and hence the resulting intermod.

So to test such a hypothesis, the effects of the Bybees should vary considerably with the type of poweramp used. I'd expect a valve amp to be largely immune to being 'Bybeed' if my hypothesis is correct. What amp were you using?
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Old 2nd September 2010, 01:50 AM   #236
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandyK View Post
Then why is there such dogged resistance to letting the DBT participants become well acquainted with the sound of the system,
either before or after the changes,as Exeric suggested ?
You might want to read things a little more closely; there hasn't been any "dogged resistance" mentioned anywhere here, that's your imagination. I am NOT running any kind of listening tests, just giving people an opportunity to hear them in my system. Any sort of DBTs will be done elsewhere, that's up to Cal (who is paying for this). And if you think that my prejudice against ripoffs, scams, gullibility, and pseudoscience is crippling to my ability to present meaningful measurements, you certainly have the opportunity to go buy some for yourself, repeat what I do, and show the world that my work was incorrect.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 02:27 AM   #237
exeric is offline exeric  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salas View Post
SandyK

I don't decide the standards, I don't participate in the experiment. I counted the declared persons. One is SY doing the first tech run and assembling a DBT panel, the second is Tubelab George running the tech only again in the pro RF lab we works for, then is panomaniac applying the devices on his Altecs that he knows very well. About methods they are going to use they are the ones to describe in detail and explain the reasons of choice. If I forgot someone or gave a wrong account of the general programmed work that I have read in the posts up to now please correct me.

About the last part, I can't know who you mean, all can attack ideas but not persons, if its a moderation thing about someone being rude, send us report button alerts each time he offends in your opinion so we get the picture. Moderation and members are not an open discussion theme and there is a rule about it.
As far as naming names of persons who might have a preconceived idea about this subject that would bias them on this particular subject I'll only say this: I've got no problem whatsoever with Tubelab George and panomaniac. Do the math.
 
Old 2nd September 2010, 04:01 AM   #238
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I like the pro RF lab stuff. Look in the GigaHz. Think cavity resonator. I could be wrong on this, but some devices have textbook dimensions.
 
Old 2nd September 2010, 04:13 AM   #239
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Can we do EnABL next?
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Old 2nd September 2010, 04:23 AM   #240
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Default Further claimed enhancements for Bybees

I came accross this suggestion from the website Tweekgeek, a seller of Bybees.

Tip: The performance of Bybee Quantum Purifiers can be greatly enhanced by wrapping them in Stillpoints ERS, placing them inside a copper tube only an inch or so longer than the Bybees themselves, and wrapping the tube in Stillpoints ERS. cover the finished product with shrink tubing for safety as the ERS is conductive. To our ears, this essentially doubles their performance, and works especially well with the Gold Bybees.

Of course, they sell Stillpoints ERS, too. Maybe this claimed enhancement could be tried after testing the naked Bybee!
 

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