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Old 16th February 2011, 10:48 PM   #1471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
That's how the impedance was measured (8R test resistor, not 4). Not only no difference, the Z was flat to 40k. In series with a noise source (the second part of your post), null difference down to 8Hz, with or without signal averaging.

It's a resistor.
The only test schematic I have seen was the MB stuff, so I cannot make statements regarding your setup.

Yes, I agree it is a resistor. It is in parallel with some gobbltygoop, and the claims are that that "stuff" somehow works better than Maxwells demon. So, if you believe that I accept the device's operation as marketed, you know me better.. You also know that I can be the devil's advocate.


Now. If I were to test a resistor at any stimulus from DC to 1 gHz, I would worry about a few things.

1. What is the current path within the device. To wit, is this resistor a helix or a bifilar? They act differently at frequency.
2. How does the DC resistance of the unit compare to the inductive reactance the device will have when subjected to currents. Is the inductive reactance of the device more, less, or comparable to the resistance?
3. When I try to measure the voltage across the unit during high frequency excitation, how do I do this without loop trapping the time rate of change of the external magnetic flux? Or, is it possible to compensate for it?

These things are very important when trying to measure low impedance widgits. I've had to design and make sub nanohenry current viewing resistors to measure magnets for phase shift in the 1 to 10 hz range..

When I see that 4 ohm pic showing the ellipse, I say to myself: yo, dude....you'ze swamped da good stuff with reactive goop and non linear goop, how youze gonna see the ting you lookin fo???

Honestly, I've seen this problem for a decade now. Everybody thinks they can buy an off the shelf power resistor that will produce accurate results across the audio bandwidth. That's a bunch of melarky..

Eric

I'll post the design tomorrow if I can. I'm afraid a physicist toasted the unit I built for him, so I don't know if I can take pictures of it for you. I told em, 1 ampere...1 ohm...1 watt, don't go higher...1 ampere...1 ohm, 1 watt...max..

10 amps


for 5 minutes.


Unattended..


sigh


melted the solder..


The color code is now....black, black, black... with a tolerance band of...you guessed it.....black


Cheers, John
 
Old 16th February 2011, 11:07 PM   #1472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jneutron View Post
I recommend you get a better set of resistors. A 4 ohm load resistor and a current view resistor, perhaps .1 ohm, both with inductance below a nanohenry each.
Kind of specialist parts no? Do you have links, I'm curious Wouldn't the other wiring in the circuit contribute inductance well above this 1nH level, or is that unimportant here?
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Old 16th February 2011, 11:19 PM   #1473
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The current view resistor is what I used as my reference- not at all exotic, easy to buy (Mouser), at least here in the US, and pretty cheap.
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Old 16th February 2011, 11:27 PM   #1474
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Originally Posted by jneutron View Post
Now. If I were to test a resistor at any stimulus from DC to 1 gHz, I would worry about a few things.

1. What is the current path within the device. To wit, is this resistor a helix or a bifilar? They act differently at frequency.
2. How does the DC resistance of the unit compare to the inductive reactance the device will have when subjected to currents. Is the inductive reactance of the device more, less, or comparable to the resistance?
3. When I try to measure the voltage across the unit during high frequency excitation, how do I do this without loop trapping the time rate of change of the external magnetic flux? Or, is it possible to compensate for it?

These things are very important when trying to measure low impedance widgits.
Sy did you do any of this?
 
Old 16th February 2011, 11:29 PM   #1475
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I am testing the device's claims. There's nothing on their website about gigahertz.

Within the audio band to two octaves beyond, the impedance is flat.

It's a resistor.

edit: With steel leads (rather than the claimed copper), it would be expected to be noticeably inductive at very high (hundreds of megahertz) frequencies, just like any other component with steel leads.
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Old 16th February 2011, 11:33 PM   #1476
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I am testing the device's claims.
Where was the claim about 'electron velocity' again? We've seen no answer to that question I posted a while back. Any news?
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Old 16th February 2011, 11:34 PM   #1477
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Already answered. I'm not feeding trolls.
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Old 16th February 2011, 11:36 PM   #1478
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Just for the record - what was the answer? AFAIR you had devised a "very clever" way of testing for "electron velocity". So what had this to do with the claims??
 
Old 16th February 2011, 11:36 PM   #1479
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Already answered.
Just post up the link to it please, I must have missed it.

Quote:
I'm not feeding trolls.
IOW, ex cathedra.
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Old 16th February 2011, 11:37 PM   #1480
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Just for the record - what was the answer AFAIR you had devised a "very clever" way of testing for "electron velocity". So what had this to do with the claims??
I'll let you do your own reading.
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