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Old 29th June 2010, 06:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bas Horneman View Post
Actually you proved my point JP. If the author was objective he would have mentioned Apple....but noooooooo
Indeed nooooo as Apple replaced faulty power supplies for free till a certain date. The approach was much different from Dells at which the article emphasizes. No denial AFAIK although they silently extended the warranty period after it expired without publishing this openly. A bit like Dell did as they also extended the warranty silently. GX270/280 were repaired for free after the official warranty period, maybe they even repair them for free nowadays as it is a product manufactured with errors (beyond their fault). I think HP has done the same as they also had Nichicon HN on some of their boards. Canon does it right now with the wrongly produced CCD from Sony that they used in a lot of camera's they made. My 2004 IXUS 400 is now being repaired for free under warranty !


Every company can have these problems because of another company but denial and the other mentioned techniques were not the wisest choices Dell made. I coul dget along with their support engineers but when it came down to solving series of the same technical problems we really had to convince them what was wrong with a thorough explanation to them ! After that they accepted it in most cases and looked for a solution. We saw it a bit as a game.

I did the talks with Dell myself at that time (we bought pc's and notebooks by the hundreds) and they first denied and then replaced the boards for the same faulty boards they had in stock. Also they were clearly instructed to emphasize that other brands had the same problems and that they were the only company that could track down all sold computers and that they would contact every owner of possible faulty machines. Just like the article says. Which they did not of course.

We also had series of the same troubles with D600 laptops where a wrongly constructed Bluetooth daughterboard broke off the mainboard. Besides that they also were equipped with a badly produced series Fujitsu harddisks that all went bad after some time as their bearings broke down, partly also because of an inadequate ventilation in that laptop computer. I recall drilling ventilation holes myself in harddisk brackets to improve airflow. Weeks of denial and after I made pics and explained a third level support guy that visited us for this matter what went wrong they accepted and assisted us by sending us replacement BT modules and harddisk brackets by boxes so that we could replace them ourselves which out manager did not approve of

BTW Bas, most people that are anti Apple are just jealous and they become grumpy because of that. Especially the "overpriced" is an often used word. Just add all the hours of virus- and spyware removals and re-installations of Windows at a yearly base and see which system is overpriced The most recent word that is used with Apple owners is that they are mostly homosexual. You can use that one at the next birthday party !
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Last edited by jean-paul; 29th June 2010 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 29th June 2010, 09:03 PM   #22
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I have a workstation that Dell had me wipe out and reload twice in a year. When I finally took a look almost all the capacitors were leaking or bulging. What can customers do about it if it is out of warranty?
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Old 29th June 2010, 09:45 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by jean-paul View Post

BTW Bas, most people that are anti Apple are just jealous and they become grumpy because of that. Especially the "overpriced" is an often used word. Just add all the hours of virus- and spyware removals and re-installations of Windows at a yearly base and see which system is overpriced The most recent word that is used with Apple owners is that they are mostly homosexual. You can use that one at the next birthday party !
haha, well Jean-Paul, You got me! I am an Apple fan-boy But if you open an Apple laptop you find first class PCB design and even (yes yes) Sanyo Oscon capacitors.

Well all jokes aside, I do use windows as well for designing and simulation, but my love goes clearly to MAC.

With kind regards,
Bas
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Old 29th June 2010, 10:26 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by PhotoBob View Post
I have a workstation that Dell had me wipe out and reload twice in a year. When I finally took a look almost all the capacitors were leaking or bulging. What can customers do about it if it is out of warranty?

You could give Dell a call or replace the caps yourself if they don't want to repair the system for free/low costs. Don't use the system anymore till it has been repaired because if the caps really short/blow they will take out the MOSFETs and then repair is quite hard. If you plan to do it yourself you need more than basic desoldering skills and the right equipment.

There is a website for these specific problems:

Badcaps.net - Badcaps Home
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Old 29th June 2010, 11:27 PM   #25
benb is online now benb  United States
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I started reading the OP and immediately did a web search on the issue. I first recall reading about this problem around 2000-2001 (Wikipedia dates the problem to 1999), and reading this now I'm surprised how many years the bad caps stayed on the market. I see someone else already posted a link to the Wikipedia article.

Here's an interesting article from the search results:
Blown, Burst and Leaking Motherboard Capacitors - A Serious Problem? - PCSTATS.com
Quote:
It's a complex problem, and the fact that businesses have even been set up to replace faulty mainboard capacitors is an interesting footnote to just how widespread this issue may be as older motherboards begin to show their age. If you know how to solder and read the labels on the aluminum capacitors, it should be possible to replace the capacitors yourself - assuming you can find identical replacements at a local electronics parts supply store. Aluminum capacitors are relatively large compared to other board mounted components, and in the factories are installed by hand.
I've never had a motherboard problem, but my current computer did have a power supply that went out. I run it 24/7, and I think I found it off one day. Pushing the "on/off" electronic start button got it started, but it later stopped and didn't start. I got a new supply to get back going, and eventually opened up the bad supply and replaced the bulging caps (at least they had been glued to the PCB so the solder connections wouldn't come apart due to vibration) with new ones from Digikey, and it's been back in the PC ever since.

As the possibility of replacing motherboard capacitors, those boards have components put together so tightly and are so thick it would be a real pain to do. Just for fun and practice I've removed components from old motherboards, it took a hot iron to melt all the solder in the hole to pull a cap lead out, and I didn't even care if there was damage to the board.

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Old 30th June 2010, 12:39 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by atmasphere View Post
General Electric showed back in the 1970s that it is not worth it to go with the cheaper part should even one of those parts fail in the field. The cost of shipping alone will often be more than the difference in cost, moreover, it can be more than the difference between several parts!
Yep, that's common sense but probably the main reason the lesson doesn't get learned in companies is accounting. The R&D department specified the capacitor, the purchasing dept. found a cheaper source but the service department picks up the tab. So with standard accounting there's no way to allocate the consequences of poor design and incompetent sourcing to R&D and purchasing. Its called 'moral hazard' and in my experience companies are full of it.
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Old 30th June 2010, 01:35 AM   #27
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Oh no. And I have an Optiplex as my music server. Well, it is reconditioned and has a warranty, but maybe it's time to look at those caps.
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Old 30th June 2010, 01:57 AM   #28
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I built my computer in 2004 and in 2008 it was getting hard to turn on. Had to push the button many tries. Finally it would not turn on anymore. I traced the problem to a bad PSU. I installed a new one and examined the old one. Several leaking or bulging electrolytics.

I used an ASUS motherboard and so far, after 6 years, the caps are fine. This problem affected several motherboard manufacturers including ASUS.

I was head of IT of a company up until 2007. We built our own machines and luckily we had few problems.

We bought many laptops for the travelers from many brands such as Dell, Toshiba, Winbook, Lenovo and others. Laptops are less reliable in my experience.

This experience should teach the manufacturers of components and products a good lesson. Sadly we will continue to hear how some cheap or poorly made component caused major hassles. I haven't followed up on the Toyota issues a few months back, but perhaps it parallels this cap issue in some ways.
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Old 30th June 2010, 02:27 AM   #29
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The plant where I work is full of Dell computers (at least 1000) the one on my desk was made in 2004. It is a high end Xeon based machine with 2 dual core processors in it. It has been turned on 24/7 since Jan 2005, but has been acting rather stupid lately. I guess it is time to look inside. It looked OK last time I had it open, which was at least a year ago. Many of the other machines of the same vintage have already failed, but I don't recall a MB failure. Most have been power supplies, HD's or memory SIMMS in that order. Several of the Dell 24 inch LCD monitors have died, many only a year old.
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Old 30th June 2010, 02:35 AM   #30
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IMO this is more of lesson of denial (greed?) of upper management in taking down of a corporation or even a National space program. Unfortunately they often Do "shoot the messenger" of bad news.
I call it “hiding their head in the sand, like an ostrich” syndrome
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Last edited by infinia; 30th June 2010 at 02:56 AM.
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