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What is wrong with op-amps?
What is wrong with op-amps?
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Old 15th January 2018, 09:19 PM   #4991
jfetter is offline jfetter  United States
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From discrete vs IC:
Not possible to fix compensate/internal parasitics on encapsulated IC.
Only what is on pins.
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Old 15th January 2018, 10:58 PM   #4992
Gnobuddy is offline Gnobuddy  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
2. they are designed by engineers using science, and are therefore part of the anti-music conspiracy which brought valves, LP, semiconductors, FM, CD and digital sound into being
On these grounds alone, they should be avoided by all genuine music-lovers.
ROFL!

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Old 16th January 2018, 12:09 AM   #4993
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfetter View Post
From discrete vs IC:
Not possible to fix compensate/internal parasitics on encapsulated IC.
Only what is on pins.
There's no "fixing" to do, they are just there usually far smaller than any discrete. This is just fantacising.
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Old 16th January 2018, 11:06 AM   #4994
nigel pearson is offline nigel pearson  United Kingdom
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One thing I have found with op amps is they have a " less than sweet spot ". That is a gain range that might sound strangely different. Take the MC33078. At unity gain it sounds excellent and possibly better than a piece of wire as it has more drive current. It can sound remarkably like no op amp at all. Not bad for a super cheap type. At a gain of two it no longer sounds the same. Like your favourite wine from a bad year. As the gain hits 10 it's almost like it's been decanted. OK it sounds more rounded than the unity gain. For all that it did the job and if anything became warmer. Kodak could always sell a film that made the red stronger. Even professionals bought the red version.

I don't really give a damn if anyone wants to believe that idea. I think it is a handy tip for someone who has issues of the head and the heart over these things. To my mind none of this is hard to understand technically. I dare say a gain of two inverting if a double inverting stage might be better. All I say is be aware it can happen.

I once said we should set a competion where only NE5532/4 2N3055/2955 BC327/337 BD139/140 could be used. I feel if you have good ears you could make something with these to put most things to shame. It wouldn't be easy. I would use Quad ESL63's speakers to judge the results and maybe KEF LS50's. Turntable Lenco GL75 with SME M2 Denon DL110 ( it's a tricky one ). CD player, whatever sounds OK ( Old Quad 67 with Crystal DAC sounds good ). I think most people would use NE5534 as it can be tweaked, it can even have external transistors added via comp pins. TIP or 2N devices. MJ 15015 seem to be marked up as 2N3055 by ON. That's fine. 3055E/H. Some would use the NE5532 and 2N3055 to make a voltage regulator. You can have red LED's and 1N4007/1N4148.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 09:54 AM   #4995
jfetter is offline jfetter  United States
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Not to continue this death by a thousand cuts but Walt Jung’s findings are interesting for modern designs.
I did a search in this thread for ‘Jung’ and a few mentions turned up so I’m adding pics of his article.
My current diy project is a feed forward compressor. Its working great with the Butler AD275 front end but I’m exploring a discrete version now.

here is Jung’s article.

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Old 22nd February 2018, 10:08 AM   #4996
dotneck335 is online now dotneck335  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel pearson View Post
....Take the MC33078. At unity gain it sounds excellent and possibly better than a piece of wire....I don't really give a damn if anyone wants to believe that idea.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 11:00 AM   #4997
nigel pearson is offline nigel pearson  United Kingdom
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So you tried it then? I suspect when op amps get to be this good if fake numbers where put on them most would hear what the numbers made them think. Placebo. The point to know is the exact op amp is not the question, it's knowing how to get the best of any. SSL used NE5534 and NE5532. Sometimes 90 end to end. As Dave Mate said " didn't sound too bad considering ". Many LP's were made using SSL desks. The LP's people use to judge this or that op amp. I am having a drink with John Deans ex of SSL tonight. I will ask what his best thoughts on this are. I know Dave did some work very late in the day to get rid of 5534's at SSL, I suspect OPA604 or whatever. Their main problems were PSU's.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 12:37 PM   #4998
sSound is offline sSound
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I agree, NE553x are all over recording equipment, they are really as good as it gets, on paper the LME49710 or LME49720 are better, soundwise I couldnt tell...
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Old 23rd February 2018, 09:45 AM   #4999
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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I think "better than a piece of wire" can be taken not entirely seriously, except for those who want their audio system to sound better than live music yet still fondly believe they are into hi-fi.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 10:22 AM   #5000
nigel pearson is offline nigel pearson  United Kingdom
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When I can I go to concerts. It's the world of 78's with more dynamic range. Most recorded music is like baby food. Beethoven is 78's and Poulenc like LP's. Never heard a sound like CD's thinking about it. This must be that the good recording engineers are dead and replaced by people with PHD in soldering. Many CD's that were carefully transcribed from analogue sound very OK. I think analogue mastering suits better. A mistake in levels is mostly like a photo where without reference to a better version can seem OK.

I asked John ex of SSL. As far as he knows the SSL updates never happened even if experiments were done. That is interesting at the desks were the price of a central London house. Modular so easy to update. What the SSL team did know was how to get a more direct route through the desk for their home recordings. They would show anyone interested. SSL made their money by getting music made quickly. Many would accept a slight reduction in musicallity for reduced studio costs. TV adverts being prime customers. Pro Tools killed it.
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